I have recently gotten back into the game and boy was I impressed with PvP tanking. I couldn't believe how well my Juggernaut was holding up against 8 targets on Void Star Warzone. After the bridge was open I "MAD DASHED" towards their entire team and managed to hold them all off just in time for my left flank *bridge* to take control of the door and plant a bomb. I accomplished this through maintaining my timed cool downs and holding adequate crowd controls as needed. Through the process I took one with me and died from 7 others within a minute time. I couldn't be anymore happier than I ever was with PvP tanking in SWTOR and I feel they are going in the right direction. My problem is, I don't see enough tanks taking advantage of all the utility based skills that could change the course of Warzones. I constantly intercede players in need and consistently switch shield protection when players are taking hits, considering no one wants to attack a tank. i'm also impressed with the sustained amount of DPS output I can manage on targets and when needed give a crushing blow in order to defeat the opponent. I've also been maintaining a good healing output on the leaders boards, and manage to rank top almost every game because how versatile my playing skills can play with a utility based tank.Please if anyone has anything to say, or need help maintaining a Juggernaut tank I'm willing to help! Edited November 12, 2015 by PierceJB

Too few people play as a tank, and of those that do, most are... unimpressive. I rarely see anyone actually guarding let alone swabbing targets and intercedes. Yesterday in lowbies, on my level ~14 hatred assassin I did a whooping 20k protection from simply spamming Mind Control. I was the only one on both teams that had any protections score at all.

 

I guess people generally find it unsexy and less rewarding than healing, DPS or stealth play.

Too few people play as a tank, and of those that do, most are... unimpressive. I rarely see anyone actually guarding let alone swabbing targets and intercedes. Yesterday in lowbies, on my level ~14 hatred assassin I did a whooping 20k protection from simply spamming Mind Control. I was the only one on both teams that had any protections score at all.

 

I guess people generally find it unsexy and less rewarding than healing, DPS or stealth play.

 

Why is this? It tends to be a leading trend as if everyone is out for themselves! If you're going to play as a tank you need to realize you can control the notion of the ocean on the battlefield in better terms you are *BASTILLA* with "BATTLE MEDITATION". Now I'm not saying go out there by yourself and get slaughtered by 5 different players, but to realize how to work with the people you are playing with in a Warzone and realize if you cc and protect people your are mitigating damage away from the main DPSERS and HEALERS. While your team manages to slowly eat at there health then you strike with your burst to finish the job to earn that winning kill of the battle! Also, when you have charge you should be jumping on those healers and immediately interrupingt them, that can also change the course of the battle! Please I know you PvP juggernauts are out there!

Edited November 12, 2015 by PierceJB

Ha ha. You are so excited!

 

But, yeah, I just recently finished leveling a jugger tank, and then an insta-60 guardian mirror to have one on both sides. Forever my "main" has been a shadow tank, but I now think I've been maining the wrong class all along. Jugger tanks are so much fun!

 

As you say... spammable slow, 2 stuns, push, mezz, probably more I'm forgetting right now. 2 leaps, heal to full, new dash for escaping after you left into the mess of enemies and messed them up. But by far the coolest thing is reflecting their own attacks back at those pesky snipers. What's not to like?

 

About the only thing I find lacking in them is being a good solo node guard. I end up doing it all the time anyway, but I have so little "cc resistance" things compared to my shadow (really only leap), plus no stealth, so I'm always on pins and needles waiting for the double operative sap-cap.

PvP tanking is so bad without a healer. But since there are plenty of healers to go around now, it's not as bad to queue as a solo tank as it was in the past.

Too few people play as a tank, and of those that do, most are... unimpressive. I rarely see anyone actually guarding let alone swabbing targets and intercedes. Yesterday in lowbies, on my level ~14 hatred assassin I did a whooping 20k protection from simply spamming Mind Control. I was the only one on both teams that had any protections score at all.

 

I guess people generally find it unsexy and less rewarding than healing, DPS or stealth play.

 

 

In regular WZ PUGs I tend to not guard anyone except in emergencies. Why? B/c not that many people are worth spending my precious health guarding and I can, quite frankly, hold an objective longer if I'm not spilling my blood protecting some craptastic DPS or unaware healer.

 

I don't even try to tank YOLO arenas any more b/c all it gets me is grief from the DPS (and occasionally the healer) if we end up losing. I have literally been stalked for minutes after a match by angry folks blaming me for a loss despite having more protection than they had DPS.

 

All that said, tanking is no better (and by many considered worse) in the expansion b/c of new and exciting ways to turn out even more damage now that bypasses the most common defensive mechanisms.

I have recently gotten back into the game and boy was I impressed with PvP tanking. I couldn't believe how well my Juggernaut was holding up against 8 targets on Void Star Warzone. After the bridge was open I "MAD DASHED" towards their entire team and managed to hold them all off just in time for my left flank *bridge* to take control of the door and plant a bomb. I accomplished this through maintaining my timed cool downs and holding adequate crowd controls as needed. Through the process I took one with me and died from 7 others within a minute time. I couldn't be anymore happier than I ever was with PvP tanking in SWTOR and I feel they are going in the right direction. My problem is, I don't see enough tanks taking advantage of all the utility based skills that could change the course of Warzones. I constantly intercede players in need and consistently switch shield protection when players are taking hits, considering no one wants to attack a tank. i'm also impressed with the sustained amount of DPS output I can manage on targets and when needed give a crushing blow in order to defeat the opponent. I've also been maintaining a good healing output on the leaders boards, and manage to rank top almost every game because how versatile my playing skills can play with a utility based tank.Please if anyone has anything to say, or need help maintaining a Juggernaut tank I'm willing to help!

 

Pierce from harbinger/shadowlands?

In regular WZ PUGs I tend to not guard anyone except in emergencies. Why? B/c not that many people are worth spending my precious health guarding and I can, quite frankly, hold an objective longer if I'm not spilling my blood protecting some craptastic DPS or unaware healer.

 

I don't even try to tank YOLO arenas any more b/c all it gets me is grief from the DPS (and occasionally the healer) if we end up losing. I have literally been stalked for minutes after a match by angry folks blaming me for a loss despite having more protection than they had DPS.

 

All that said, tanking is no better (and by many considered worse) in the expansion b/c of new and exciting ways to turn out even more damage now that bypasses the most common defensive mechanisms.

 

I understand being frustrated with other players, I really do, but as a tank you really should consider, well, tanking a bit more. At least I hope you use your taunts plentifully

Pierce from harbinger/shadowlands?

 

Pierce from the Server Malak which later merged to POT5

PvP tanking is so bad without a healer. But since there are plenty of healers to go around now, it's not as bad to queue as a solo tank as it was in the past.

 

If you time things right there is really no need for a healer, I run into multiple warzones without acknowledging the fact if we even have one, "be optimistic in battle and the tide of the war may change, be realistic and falter, because you already know you've lost" Chin up people who needs a healer anyway!!!! Don't get me wrong I'm not blindsiding the fact healers are key to winning but if you realize you have no healers you better try your best to dish as much dps as needed and if you know your losing put up a hell of a fight!

Ha ha. You are so excited!

 

But, yeah, I just recently finished leveling a jugger tank, and then an insta-60 guardian mirror to have one on both sides. Forever my "main" has been a shadow tank, but I now think I've been maining the wrong class all along. Jugger tanks are so much fun!

 

As you say... spammable slow, 2 stuns, push, mezz, probably more I'm forgetting right now. 2 leaps, heal to full, new dash for escaping after you left into the mess of enemies and messed them up. But by far the coolest thing is reflecting their own attacks back at those pesky snipers. What's not to like?

 

About the only thing I find lacking in them is being a good solo node guard. I end up doing it all the time anyway, but I have so little "cc resistance" things compared to my shadow (really only leap), plus no stealth, so I'm always on pins and needles waiting for the double operative sap-cap.

 

Now the problem you may be facing is the fact, you aren't trying to flag down your teammates! When I'm defending a node I'm up for a battle, now say i get sapped I immediately report to my team that I need help at "whichever node". Even at the glimpse of enemy targets heading to my node I immediately report what is going on. Learn to save your cc breaker on situations that could be fatal, *sapped* (they are trying to snag the post), bust out of that!!!! aoe cc them and watch them cry while your team comes for the rescue or resume to smash face on one while the other is disoriented with your second cc. The problem is tanking isn't a easy concept in PvP and it tends to be one of the most situational classes, because without our cooldowns we are butter to their PVP grill cheese.

Too few people play as a tank, and of those that do, most are... unimpressive. I rarely see anyone actually guarding let alone swabbing targets and intercedes. Yesterday in lowbies, on my level ~14 hatred assassin I did a whooping 20k protection from simply spamming Mind Control. I was the only one on both teams that had any protections score at all.

 

I guess people generally find it unsexy and less rewarding than healing, DPS or stealth play.

 

I find pvp tanking very rewarding, but easily the most effort of the roles to play. Maybe its just me, just keeping tabs on team mates, guard swapping, cc's and neutralising enemy damage is quite the challenge, moreso in ranked.

I understand being frustrated with other players, I really do, but as a tank you really should consider, well, tanking a bit more. At least I hope you use your taunts plentifully

 

I agree 100 percent with your statement. Tank- team based, why would you play a tank other wise so you can get slapped around and never achieve top DPS, if your well rounded those medals stack you up to the top?! and that damage reduction for taunts key!

I understand being frustrated with other players, I really do, but as a tank you really should consider, well, tanking a bit more. At least I hope you use your taunts plentifully

 

Not frustration but a cost-benefit analysis. If guarding someone will get us the win, I'll do it. But if guarding someone is just going to get me killed (b/c they don't use their own defensive CDs to keep me from wasting health for example) and just end up with both of us dead and an easy cap then it makes sense to hoard my own health until reinforcements arrive.

 

This is the same thing healers do all the time....choosing who lives and who dies (which is sometimes you). But for some reason you are a "bad" tank if you do it. Shrug.

Not frustration but a cost-benefit analysis. If guarding someone will get us the win, I'll do it. But if guarding someone is just going to get me killed (b/c they don't use their own defensive CDs to keep me from wasting health for example) and just end up with both of us dead and an easy cap then it makes sense to hoard my own health until reinforcements arrive.

 

This is the same thing healers do all the time....choosing who lives and who dies (which is sometimes you). But for some reason you are a "bad" tank if you do it. Shrug.

 

Triage is absolutely fine. You just made it sound like you almost never guarded.

 

And this is what I mean by no one guarding / taunting. I am not say my taunts where greatly effective, but at least they were there. Again this is with hatred spec. (Yes this is lowbies but still...)

Now the problem you may be facing is the fact, you aren't trying to flag down your teammates! When I'm defending a node I'm up for a battle, now say i get sapped I immediately report to my team that I need help at "whichever node". Even at the glimpse of enemy targets heading to my node I immediately report what is going on. Learn to save your cc breaker on situations that could be fatal, *sapped* (they are trying to snag the post), bust out of that!!!! aoe cc them and watch them cry while your team comes for the rescue or resume to smash face on one while the other is disoriented with your second cc. The problem is tanking isn't a easy concept in PvP and it tends to be one of the most situational classes, because without our cooldowns we are butter to their PVP grill cheese.

 

Yep, do all that. But on my shadow I can mezz them to stop the cap without ever coming out of stealth, and then a second time before their resolve is full. Then pop out of stealth to attack, stop their cap, and put up... shoot, I forget the name, but that "glow yellow" ability that basically makes me immune to cc for quite a while, and run around stopping caps while that's up. Then combat stealth, and use mezz again because their resolve will have worn off by then. Gives my team a LOT more time to respond. Plus I haven't even used my cc breaker yet!

 

On my jugg they start out with the drop on me, and then I have my one cc break, and my short immune after leap, and then that assassin whirlwinds me and I can do nothing but hang there helpless as they cap. I've called already, but my team better respond really fast, or I have to hope an enemy mara comes leaping in to "help" her friend and breaks the mezz on me.

Not frustration but a cost-benefit analysis. If guarding someone will get us the win, I'll do it. But if guarding someone is just going to get me killed (b/c they don't use their own defensive CDs to keep me from wasting health for example) and just end up with both of us dead and an easy cap then it makes sense to hoard my own health until reinforcements arrive.

 

This is the same thing healers do all the time....choosing who lives and who dies (which is sometimes you). But for some reason you are a "bad" tank if you do it. Shrug.

 

I agree with this to some extent. I'm not going to be following the DPS around who is chasing kills all over the place just so I can stay in guard range. Not when I should be staying near the door/turret to stop caps. Or, I'll jump into the fray in AHG, to try to save the DPS who's caught by the enemy and is trying to escape, but if they just wail away with no thought about avoiding their own death (which costs us points) then heck no! No point in both of us dying.

I agree with this to some extent. I'm not going to be following the DPS around who is chasing kills all over the place just so I can stay in guard range. Not when I should be staying near the door/turret to stop caps. Or, I'll jump into the fray in AHG, to try to save the DPS who's caught by the enemy and is trying to escape, but if they just wail away with no thought about avoiding their own death (which costs us points) then heck no! No point in both of us dying.

 

I believe we are off track from helping people with guard. The idea of guard is to save the battle towards the progression of the objective so your team is well defended, I'm not saying follow the null DPS that avoids objectives that hunts for kills. Use guard as a tactic towards objectives, if your defending the nod, door, or database and your outnumbered defend someone so you guys outlast the attack. I rarely even worried about my health because I'm 10k over everyone else and while I do guard I make sure i contribute so that I damage mitigate therefore leaving me well above 75% health and living. Every 4v4 situation in PvP arenas i rarely never drop below 50 percent health due to guard because the damage isn't significant enough to effect all the damage reduction i already have. If dying is the issue because you guarded a player pop saber reflect therefore no damage is being effected to you. This is completely situational and hard to put a finger on the exact issue you tanks are having using guard.

Edited November 12, 2015 by PierceJB

Yep, do all that. But on my shadow I can mezz them to stop the cap without ever coming out of stealth, and then a second time before their resolve is full. Then pop out of stealth to attack, stop their cap, and put up... shoot, I forget the name, but that "glow yellow" ability that basically makes me immune to cc for quite a while, and run around stopping caps while that's up. Then combat stealth, and use mezz again because their resolve will have worn off by then. Gives my team a LOT more time to respond. Plus I haven't even used my cc breaker yet!

 

On my jugg they start out with the drop on me, and then I have my one cc break, and my short immune after leap, and then that assassin whirlwinds me and I can do nothing but hang there helpless as they cap. I've called already, but my team better respond really fast, or I have to hope an enemy mara comes leaping in to "help" her friend and breaks the mezz on me.

 

I mean its fair to say, each class needs flaws, its how you overcome them which make you the better player. If its really an issue when you feel as if the stealth enemy is close towards the beginning of the match, use in enduring rage i believe the spell is so you gain the force points to use thunderclap or slash *sorry for the wow term lol*. You have to remember you're a walking super star destroyer, but with those shields off a dying A-Wing can take you with it.

I believe we are off track from helping people with guard. The idea of guard is to save the battle towards the progression of the objective so your team is well defended, I'm not saying follow the null DPS that avoids objectives that hunts for kills. Use guard as a tactic towards objectives, if your defending the nod, door, or database and your outnumbered defend someone so you guys outlast the attack. I rarely even worried about my health because I'm 10k over everyone else and while I do guard I make sure i contribute so that I damage mitigate therefore leaving me well above 75% health and living. Every 4v4 situation in PvP arenas i rarely never drop below 50 percent health due to guard because the damage isn't significant enough to effect all the damage reduction i already have. If dying is the issue because you guarded a player pop saber reflect therefore no damage is being effected to you. This is completely situational and hard to put a finger on the exact issue you tanks are having using guard.

 

To be clear, guarding in 4v4 arenas is a must, even in PUGs.

 

Guarding in objective WZs is much more situational....especially with PUGs.

... This is completely situational and hard to put a finger on the exact issue you tanks are having using guard.

 

I don't think anyone who replied is having trouble using guard. I think we are all "arguing" the same thing. Use guard intelligently to help win the match. Guard a valuable asset that is under attack to help mitigate the effectiveness of focus fire. Swap guard as necessary. Rinse repeat.

I don't think anyone who replied is having trouble using guard. I think we are all "arguing" the same thing. Use guard intelligently to help win the match. Guard a valuable asset that is under attack to help mitigate the effectiveness of focus fire. Swap guard as necessary. Rinse repeat.

 

ok i felt as if, we were saying its essentially useless to waste time using guard, because the expense would be death from people not doing objectives.

But to the original thesis that PvP tanking is in better shape now, that is not true. None of the tanks actually got significantly more survivability (mad dash will not save your life). They got more ability to stay on target or to re-engage offensively. Sure, going against scrubs you will feel like a god. But run up against a team that knows how to actually put out damage and you'll go splat faster than before.

 

With the re-work of critical hits and surge, it is now easier to get extreme hits even taking into consideration the increased health pools. What has changed a bit is that healers can keep tanks upright more easily now which is actually kind of backwards when you think about it. Tanks should be there to keep other classes upright so they can do their job but the tanks are the ones that actually need support to do their job effectively. It was like this in 3.0, but it is worse now.

But to the original thesis that PvP tanking is in better shape now, that is not true. None of the tanks actually got significantly more survivability (mad dash will not save your life). They got more ability to stay on target or to re-engage offensively. Sure, going against scrubs you will feel like a god. But run up against a team that knows how to actually put out damage and you'll go splat faster than before.

 

With the re-work of critical hits and surge, it is now easier to get extreme hits even taking into consideration the increased health pools. What has changed a bit is that healers can keep tanks upright more easily now which is actually kind of backwards when you think about it. Tanks should be there to keep other classes upright so they can do their job but the tanks are the ones that actually need support to do their job effectively. It was like this in 3.0, but it is worse now.

 

Mad dash reduces all damage intake which is highly effective and an escape route. Now I've played the game since launch and I'm not new to PvP in any major MMO or have ever had a problem with any class pertaining to the persistent qqs people always have about the balance of the game. i was playing in the level 65 bracket when that situation went down regardless if its a well organized team if the player knows what he is doing he will advocate the fact they can put up one hell of a show when its 1v8 and ultimately taking a scoundrel with me (he shot gunned me twice while saber reflect was up, fairly easy to take him with me). I've been Tank PvPing since launch I believe the PvP is easy and not in the sense to bash on it, so I consider myself a seasoned veteran that has player skills required to handle any situation. Malgarios POT5 Juggernaut. On top of all this I'm anti-healer in the case of needing saving! I ran triple DPS eZ in WoW who needs a healer anyway? (Not directing to coordinated ranked PvP, this is in the sense of casual PvP play and possibly up against a premade group)

But to the original thesis that PvP tanking is in better shape now, that is not true. None of the tanks actually got significantly more survivability (mad dash will not save your life)...

 

Not entirely true I think. You can talent Mad Dash to break roots, and perhaps get you away from another melee, but that's hardly helpful if you are stunned or facing ranged. Of course, I didn't talent it that way, because other things seemed more valuable.

 

MD has, however, gotten me "around the corner" (even though you can't turn when using it, which sucks) a few times in AHG when I was being focused. More often, though, I'm pointed in SLIGHTLY the wrong direction, and I go basically nowhere because I get caught up on a 3-inch high step that my super-powerful jedi seems to be unable to just walk over like any normal person would. For being the new "high level" ability, I mostly use it to get to the other node "a bit quicker". Maybe I just don't get it?

 

And it does feel completely stupid that I basically dropped ALL my defense stats in favor of just more health. I"m not sure it's 100% the right way to gear, but right now I have baseline shield & absorb, and the only defense I have is on a relic where I can't get rid of it. I think the only reason I haven't just dropped the shield completely to get more DPS is because, well "I'm a tank, I'm supposed to use a shield".

 

And about the other early point of this thread... that no one tanks. Well, I think 4 people have contributed to this thread so far? LoL compared to how many chime in on basically any QQ thread.