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Trooper Rank Structure

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Trooper Rank Structure

Matsky's Avatar


Matsky
01.20.2012 , 11:06 PM | #31
I'm still waiting for the game to download, but the Ensign-deferring-to-a-Sergeant thing doesn't sound too ridiculous in my mind.

Ensign is a Naval rank. I see the Troopers as being either a Special Forces branch of the Republic Army, or perhaps an almost independent branch of their own under either the Republic Army or Navy, as the US Marines are to the US Navy.

So as entirely separate branches, the rigid chain-of-command system wouldn't really be there in a sense, although in the real world I believe NCOs of any branch are required to salute commissioned officers of any branch where appropriate, but it's not too crazy.

Also, as someone said, Ensign is the first commissioned rank. It's almost like a trainee rank, what you'd get straight out of the Academy until you've earned your way to Lieutenant. So it's not entirely ridiculous to think that a lowly Ensign, green out of the Academy, might defer to a grizzled, battle-hardened NCO of a specialist unit, outside of his own divisional branch. It might not be proper, but it's not completely unfeasible.

But, I agree, it wouldn't take much to get the rank structure right. I can work around it though.

KLGChaos's Avatar


KLGChaos
01.21.2012 , 12:57 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Matsky View Post
I'm still waiting for the game to download, but the Ensign-deferring-to-a-Sergeant thing doesn't sound too ridiculous in my mind.

Ensign is a Naval rank. I see the Troopers as being either a Special Forces branch of the Republic Army, or perhaps an almost independent branch of their own under either the Republic Army or Navy, as the US Marines are to the US Navy.

So as entirely separate branches, the rigid chain-of-command system wouldn't really be there in a sense, although in the real world I believe NCOs of any branch are required to salute commissioned officers of any branch where appropriate, but it's not too crazy.

Also, as someone said, Ensign is the first commissioned rank. It's almost like a trainee rank, what you'd get straight out of the Academy until you've earned your way to Lieutenant. So it's not entirely ridiculous to think that a lowly Ensign, green out of the Academy, might defer to a grizzled, battle-hardened NCO of a specialist unit, outside of his own divisional branch. It might not be proper, but it's not completely unfeasible.

But, I agree, it wouldn't take much to get the rank structure right. I can work around it though.
Havoc Squad IS a Special Forces divison. They're actually the model that the other Special Forces is based off as well-- the elite of the elite. So, the lead character getting called sir by someone higher up could be plausible with enough respect for the group. These guys are the Navy Seals of the Republic Army.

As for an NPC calling another NPC sir... it doesn't really bother me. I'm not a military guy and it's a fantasy game set a long time ago in a galaxy far away. Maybe in their world, it's perfectly acceptable to call a lower rank sir. :P

Wuxmus's Avatar


Wuxmus
01.21.2012 , 07:02 AM | #33
Interesting read.

In my military I've actually seen an ensign calling a sergeant 'Sir', but our rank structure seems quite different to yours.
In Germany both ensign and sergeant are equal ranks, with ensign being a cadet officer rank (sergeants can't become officers). Sergeants tend to have more experience (and served longer), so it's not unheard of that a ensign calls a sergeant 'Sir' out of respect.

clocknane's Avatar


clocknane
01.21.2012 , 02:30 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by RuQu View Post
What is going on with these ranks? As a sergeant my trooper was demanding salutes, despite this not being an officer rank. Later in the Trooper line, an NPC ensign (the first officer rank in the Navy) calls a Sergeant (a mid-level non-officer rank in the non-Navy services) "Sir" and acts as though she is his superior.

It would be good if there was a codec entry for Troopers at the start that explained the rank structure, because as a member of the military IRL, I find the use of military ranks and terms in this game very confusing. It wouldn't be a problem if they were made up ranks, like some of the Imperial ranks, but using real world ranks in a non-conventional way with no explanation makes it seem as though it is a writing mistake.
I use to be in the Air force and I too noticed Sergeants being called sir by officer's in this game. A sergeant is an NCO (Non-Commissioned Officer) who did not attend the academy or what I use to call it OTS (Officer Training school). An NCO in the real military in any branch would salute the officer first and keep their salute up until the officer saluted and brought theirs back down. This is respect and general courtesy in the military. Please Bioware, at least get the common realities in this game right.. even if it is a fictional game.
Proud Member of the First ever SWTOR testing group, Korriban Squadron 01.

Andrew_Waltfeld's Avatar


Andrew_Waltfeld
01.21.2012 , 03:07 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Laosboi View Post
It's probably because we're havoc squad which is special forces which is whole different branch of the army that's higher up =P
This mostly. ^

Your basically given the respect of a LT, but you need to earn it.
Professionals have standards. Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
Codename: The BrotherHood an Elite Trooper only Republic Unit
Rank: Captain - Element: Spartan Company

LinqMasterJ's Avatar


LinqMasterJ
01.21.2012 , 06:19 PM | #36
I find it kind of ridiculous that everyone is expecting the use of a rank system in a video game to match that of the United States verbatim; here are what I believe to be several reasons why they shouldn't.

1: Its a fantasy game; i.e. everything is MADE UP.
2A: The game is not specifically "American" so why should they use the american version to begin with, as stated by previous posters the structure actually kind of resembles british/german equivalents.
2B: On the note that it resembles the british structure the game was developed by a company that started in Canada (a part of the British commonwealth) which is owned by another company that is headquartered in Canada (EA games)
3: Its a game with a HUGE variation of people playing and as such i would expect a low population of which know exactly how the ranking structure of any military works so its made to be less complex; like there are no commissioned or non commissioned ranks
4: The game is set "A Long time ago, in a galaxy far far away" is it too much of a stretch to think they may have done things differently

Jetflair's Avatar


Jetflair
01.21.2012 , 07:42 PM | #37
Personally I don't think Bioware researched far enough to modern armies when they did trooper.

You could see this in story things like how desertion was handled. I just think they didn't do very careful and detailed work with trooper story and all its concepts. Its like they didn't have anyone who would have been in army checking the story and details.

I'm only reservist and been sometime since been in army but even I cringe in few spots in story as many things just don't feel right.

Jetflair's Avatar


Jetflair
01.21.2012 , 07:48 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by LinqMasterJ View Post
I find it kind of ridiculous that everyone is expecting the use of a rank system in a video game to match that of the United States verbatim; here are what I believe to be several reasons why they shouldn't.

1: Its a fantasy game; i.e. everything is MADE UP.
2A: The game is not specifically "American" so why should they use the american version to begin with, as stated by previous posters the structure actually kind of resembles british/german equivalents.
2B: On the note that it resembles the british structure the game was developed by a company that started in Canada (a part of the British commonwealth) which is owned by another company that is headquartered in Canada (EA games)
3: Its a game with a HUGE variation of people playing and as such i would expect a low population of which know exactly how the ranking structure of any military works so its made to be less complex; like there are no commissioned or non commissioned ranks
4: The game is set "A Long time ago, in a galaxy far far away" is it too much of a stretch to think they may have done things differently
But they didn't invent special operations, ranks and even the way soldiers salute.
Its all borrowed from real world,. Galaxy can be fantasy as republic, but the many concepts they didn't create but instead borrowed from real world.

I think its natural assume that if you borrow something from real world you follow it logically too. Question here is about inconsistency which I think exist in trooper storyline otherwise too.

Rhostadt's Avatar


Rhostadt
01.22.2012 , 01:33 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by LinqMasterJ View Post
I find it kind of ridiculous that everyone is expecting the use of a rank system in a video game to match that of the United States verbatim; here are what I believe to be several reasons why they shouldn't.

1: Its a fantasy game; i.e. everything is MADE UP.
2A: The game is not specifically "American" so why should they use the american version to begin with, as stated by previous posters the structure actually kind of resembles british/german equivalents.
2B: On the note that it resembles the british structure the game was developed by a company that started in Canada (a part of the British commonwealth) which is owned by another company that is headquartered in Canada (EA games)
3: Its a game with a HUGE variation of people playing and as such i would expect a low population of which know exactly how the ranking structure of any military works so its made to be less complex; like there are no commissioned or non commissioned ranks
4: The game is set "A Long time ago, in a galaxy far far away" is it too much of a stretch to think they may have done things differently
Bigoted much? Your entire post is not only idiotic, but irrelevant. It doesn't matter which country's military rank structure the game was based on (if any), for one very simple reason. The game has a codex entry specifying the necessary information. First, that Havoc Squad is Special Forces, part of the Republic Army. Second, that Ensign is of superior rank to Sergeant. Third, "...the honorific 'sir' should be used when addressing any personnel of higher rank than oneself, regardless of the species, gender or position of the addressee."

The OP is correct, the ensign NPC should not have called the NPC sergeant 'sir'. The correct form of address would have been to simply call him 'sergeant'. You don't have to call a lower ranking person 'sir' in order to show them respect.

All that said, I'd just brush it off as the voiced over equivalent of a typo. The codex entry proves that BioWare put at least some thought into it.

P.S. The soldiers in the trooper story line salute in the fashion of the US military, not the British military.

DrowNoble's Avatar


DrowNoble
01.28.2013 , 07:45 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by SupaReform View Post
Sergent = NCO = Non-Commisioned OFFICER
An NCO is still an enlisted rank, at least in RL military. You would not be required to salute an NCO who outranked you, but would always be required to salute an officer of any branch that outranked you. Example: a LT in the navy outranks a LT in the army, name is the same but the naval is O-3 while the army one would be an O-1 or 2.

As far as the lore goes could be they salute you out of respect for your status in Havoc squad. Otherwise I agree that the rankings seem a tad confusing at times on Republic side.