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I'm playing the story I want to, and i'm being punished for it

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
I'm playing the story I want to, and i'm being punished for it

krisslanza's Avatar


krisslanza
12.25.2011 , 07:04 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Caelrie View Post
Quit being so black and white. Star Wars has plenty of room for neutral types. Hell, one of the major figures in this game, Revan, walked the neutral path.

So bone up on your star wars lore and quit being a jerk.
Wasn't Revan canon light-side? The only major figure I can think of in the Old Republic era that was neutral, was Jolee Bindo.

Darthnvp's Avatar


Darthnvp
12.25.2011 , 11:30 PM | #32
Although I don't play on a RP server I do like the RP aspect of this game, and I laugh and "muahahah!!" with every cool choice I make in the game, that being said there are (on Empire side at least) some very odd choices during both class and planet quests.

I've recently started playing a SA and during character creation I fleshed out how to RP my character in my head and said to my self that I wanted to play a "reasonable" Pro Empire, Pro order kind of guym meaning NOT going "muahahahah" and blowing up the orphanage to see what would happen, but rather have the children send to sith academy or slave pens.

Problem is that while playing this character I can't get either a net DS or net LS gain.
Sometimes the LS choice is a "betray the empire and the principles of the dark side" and the DS is a "for the empire and the principles of the darks side" and other times the LS choice is "For the empire and for order" while the DS choice is a "muahahahah for ME for ME!!!" choice. this is roughly split 50/50 so I wind up with just about the exact same amount of DS as LS points.

Now I thought about it and initially I said to my self: LS points for empire should be order and DS should be chaos, but that would exclude the possibillity to play "the redeemed sith" fantsy, so I think what they should actually do is add another axis, namely the one from Mass Effect so people can play a Bountyhunter who obeys his contract but isn't a muahaha evil git, and enables the Sith to be for the empire or for him self without ending up very odd places (or no place at all) on the DS/LS scale
Giggles insanely in the corner

Darthnvp's Avatar


Darthnvp
12.25.2011 , 11:51 PM | #33
On another note on the DS/LS thing. As empire you get LS points for the oddest things.

Spoiler


There are a lot of these odd LS choices as Empire and in my opinion you should only get LS points for selfless acts (in all its variations) and only get DS points for murder, cruelty and so on.
I know that this would limit the amount of LS points you would be able to get as an empire character, but I really don't care and it could be worked around quite easily by simply lowering the amount of LS points required for each stage for empire and the same for DS points for the republic while also lowring the possibillities and amounts of points you can get on each side.

And as mentioned in my earlier post, adding another axis to the whole thing would also work, so that a sith would often have to choose between order (tyranny) and DS points (chaos) and only rarely get the option for LS points, and something similar for the republic.
Giggles insanely in the corner

Ommm's Avatar


Ommm
12.25.2011 , 11:51 PM | #34
I agree that either goin full light or dark because of the equipment is kinda pressuring you to go in a certain direction not being true to what you would choose otherwise in convos.

Toxophile's Avatar


Toxophile
12.26.2011 , 12:33 AM | #35
Bw really does need to go through an revamp the choice tree. I mean, it's either I am a holy, honorable person who loves children and puppies or I am a murdering backstabbing scum who wants to kill children and old ladies.

When faced with a choice or getting hard to find medicine, I can choose to get it for the soldiers fighting the battles, or the children who have been orphaned. So, if I want children to die while soldiers yuk it up, I have to go Dark Side. If I am a Saint with truth and justice (which is *alwasy* the right way!) on my side, I let the soldiers die and save the children.

Okay, so the evil guy saves everyone in the town thanks to now-healthy solders is who can kill the enemy. The holy guy condemns everyone in the town, including the now-healthy children, to slavery or execution because there aren't enough soldiers to fend off or defeat the enemy.

Why do I get Dark points for saving the whole town? This is why BW needs to redo their choice tree's. They are too cartoonish for a Sci-Fi genre.
Odano Akkori, First Mayor of Galaxies - Jaxian Bay, Tempest

RiledRodian's Avatar


RiledRodian
12.27.2011 , 03:03 PM | #36
This is a major oversight of the game design, obviously coming from the MMO design vets on Bioware's team. Alignment shouldn't be min/maxed.

If Bioware want's people to play the story "correctly," they should completely revamp the alignment reward system, or providing mixed alignment gear. For example, gear requirements not being just "dark II" but perhaps "Dark I/Light I" combined.
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HalcyonicPlague's Avatar


HalcyonicPlague
12.27.2011 , 03:23 PM | #37
Given that ya know... Star Wars is a battle been the lightside and the darkside... I just do not get these problems.

I do find that on the Imperial side some of the options that give lightside points are a little wonky. In the end though after playing up to level 20 as my Sith Sorceror I had only gotten 150 lightside points for taking options that were pragmatic instead of outright evil. I never had an issue, and given that my Sith is evil it works out perfectly fine.

Republic has some wonky stuff going on as well. My trooper is meant to be a bit more cutthroat no nonsense but pro-Republic which leads to a difficulty in accumulating points but ya know what... that's the character. If cannot get perks from it, meh. Then those OPTIONS then those CHOICES do not get to reap some benefits. I am ok with that because I played those options. I am gratified by taking those options.

RiledRodian's Avatar


RiledRodian
12.27.2011 , 03:45 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by HalcyonicPlague View Post
Given that ya know... Star Wars is a battle been the lightside and the darkside... I just do not get these problems.

I do find that on the Imperial side some of the options that give lightside points are a little wonky. In the end though after playing up to level 20 as my Sith Sorceror I had only gotten 150 lightside points for taking options that were pragmatic instead of outright evil. I never had an issue, and given that my Sith is evil it works out perfectly fine.

Republic has some wonky stuff going on as well. My trooper is meant to be a bit more cutthroat no nonsense but pro-Republic which leads to a difficulty in accumulating points but ya know what... that's the character. If cannot get perks from it, meh. Then those OPTIONS then those CHOICES do not get to reap some benefits. I am ok with that because I played those options. I am gratified by taking those options.
It may be a battle for lightside and darkside (I guess, I wouldn't really agree, but whatever.) But it's not all about pure light and dark battling it out. With the exception of Palpatine, nobody in the movies is pure evil, they all have motives that place them somewhere near one end or the other, but not totally. Darth Vader's feelings for his son change his path where he normally would've mowed people down. Obi-Wan Kenobi is all about using the force for good, and not evil, yet allows himself to manipulate others with his abilities and even lies for "a greater good."

The Jedi believe in peace and harmony, but have their heads in the cloud from ego and position.

Plus, when you get into the greater lore, you know that while the jedi/sith battle might be a darkside lightside war, much of the other people (who would be represented in the game as Smugglers, Bounty Hunters, Troopers and Imperial Agents.) live a much grayer affair -- Han Solo is hardly a paragon. Sure, he swoops in at the end of the day to do what he feels is right, but he isn't afraid to shoot first. (regardless of what the newer editions want us to believe!)
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Gozinya's Avatar


Gozinya
12.27.2011 , 04:22 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by RiledRodian View Post
It may be a battle for lightside and darkside (I guess, I wouldn't really agree, but whatever.) But it's not all about pure light and dark battling it out. With the exception of Palpatine, nobody in the movies is pure evil, they all have motives that place them somewhere near one end or the other, but not totally. Darth Vader's feelings for his son change his path where he normally would've mowed people down. Obi-Wan Kenobi is all about using the force for good, and not evil, yet allows himself to manipulate others with his abilities and even lies for "a greater good."

The Jedi believe in peace and harmony, but have their heads in the cloud from ego and position.

Plus, when you get into the greater lore, you know that while the jedi/sith battle might be a darkside lightside war, much of the other people (who would be represented in the game as Smugglers, Bounty Hunters, Troopers and Imperial Agents.) live a much grayer affair -- Han Solo is hardly a paragon. Sure, he swoops in at the end of the day to do what he feels is right, but he isn't afraid to shoot first. (regardless of what the newer editions want us to believe!)
Well said, and agree with 100%
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Exostotic's Avatar


Exostotic
12.27.2011 , 08:34 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by RiledRodian View Post
This is a major oversight of the game design, obviously coming from the MMO design vets on Bioware's team. Alignment shouldn't be min/maxed.

If Bioware want's people to play the story "correctly," they should completely revamp the alignment reward system, or providing mixed alignment gear. For example, gear requirements not being just "dark II" but perhaps "Dark I/Light I" combined.
I think this is a brilliant idea. Right now, all they look at is the "net" alignment. This is an interesting alternative approach