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I'm playing the story I want to, and i'm being punished for it

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
I'm playing the story I want to, and i'm being punished for it

MRCHalifax's Avatar

12.30.2011 , 05:47 PM | #131
I'm also fairly disappointed by the lack of support for a morally gray character. I want to play a Jedi that obeys the law diligently, who would never dream of stealing credits or allowing emotions to guide her actions. And, as she never lets emotions guide her, she feels no pity or remorse. She understands how ridiculous it is to throw away weapons, how dangerous it is to trust traitors (but also how useful those traitors can be).

Getting dressed in the morning, executing a traitor, eating breakfast, securing a biological weapons facility to turn normal people into mindless remotely controlled killing machines, brushing her teeth, burning a planet down to its crust to deny its resources to the enemy (and killing millions in the process), and clipping her lightsaber to her belt all fill her with exactly the same emotions: none.

There is no emotion, there is peace. There is no passion, there is serenity. And she will feel neither emotion nor passion in slaughtering your family, making it look like Imperials did it, and using the attack for propaganda purposes.

sanctimonia's Avatar

12.30.2011 , 05:51 PM | #132
Quote: Originally Posted by ChanMaradar View Post
Is your epic story really going to be that changed by having -11 END?
At end game....well most of the powerful items require light/dark 3+ alighment. Not to mention getting gear is eaiser when you can buy it from a dark/light vendor instead of having to run FP or WZs for it.

Just saying that chosing the middle path does make things a bit mroe difficult and gimps your game play a bit.

EXMartyr's Avatar

12.30.2011 , 06:41 PM | #133
For the record, I agree that Neutral players should not get the shaft in terms of gear. After all, this is a story based game and you are intended to have the freedom to express your story however you see fit. It doesn't make sense that you should be punished for not fitting into 1 of the 2 archetypes naturally created by the light/dark side choices.

If you really want to take to the realm of plausibility how could any physical item be restricted from use by a person with particular moral disposition.

Furthermore, I'd like to add on a personal note that it is frustrating that the game displays your total light and total dark side points achieved separately. It's a stigma that I'm sure most people would like removed.

Monopoker's Avatar

12.30.2011 , 07:48 PM | #134
OP has a point. Why not just make it part of character creation and then choose all my dialogue for me? If thought and consideration doesn't enter in to it, then why give me options?

Maybe it's the case that light and dark side are purposefully easy-mode. That might make sense. Except then it's the same coupling of story and character optimization, with the same class of issue: why not choose easy mode at the start?

I think in general that it's just a poor design decision. Story and character optimization should be separate. If anything, there should be minor side-grades involved, but I shouldn't have to consider optimization when I'm enjoying a story. It really pulls me out.

Serris_Kell's Avatar

12.30.2011 , 08:12 PM | #135
It is more than a little annoying. I play Ristor, my knight, as one that came to the Order late, and so had more than a few years of maturity behind him. He has a proper sense of self control and proportion, and so sees the total emotional lockdown that the Jedi preach and follow to not only be counterproductive but outright dangerous when applied to young, fiery, hormonal papawans.

His self control is contrasted by his surgical violence and focused brutality in battle. He is willing and able to make sacrifices for the greater effort, but strives to not have to do so if he can prevent it. He is merciless in battle, but is compassionate and understanding to noncombatants. He understands that one cannot let themselves be lost to an emotional fervor, but loves Kira with everything he has.

Most orthodox Jedi wold consider Ristor to be "fallen" and on the edge of the Dark Side, when really, he's far less prone to falling to it's temptations than the majority of emotionally inexperienced jedi are.

I may actually end up deleting Ristor even at level 22 and restart him, because some of the choices made by virtue of being deceived by the speech wheel were by no means in character. Case in point: heading up to the final showdown with Watcher One. Why would anyone sane with even the barest notion of the stakes (BILLIONS of lives) take the time to save a tiny handful of colonists when the information of the whole republic's superweapon program is on the verge of being leaked to the Empire?

Sorry for the colonists, but that information is more important than their lives. Instead, I got shafted into helping the colonists and got to Watcher just as he sent the info out. Dark Side points or no, Ristor is very down to earth and pragmatic when it comes time to military action. Even if he'd had to choose between Kira's life and that information, he'd still sacrifice Kira to save billions. It'd leave him a broken wreck, but he'd do it. For the record, he'd expect her to do the same.

MFCell's Avatar

12.30.2011 , 08:14 PM | #136
I have to agree - somewhat - with this post.

I didn't have a problem with the choices, by and large (playing an empire BH) until this last one:


And really, I'm not sure why some of these choices are either/or. Why aren't some of these choices either LS points or NO points, or alternately DS points or NO points? The fact that I want to do something that is either only somewhat evil or reasonably neutral and get penalized an effective 100 points (50 LS points take AWAY from my total) seems a bit unbalanced. Sparing someone's life altruistically, sure, that's no-brainer LS points. But I definitely agree that there are some problems with the middle-ground options.

And to be fair, sometimes they get it right. Some of the decidedly evil options give 100 or 150 DS points in one shot - choosing to just wipe someone out without even hearing what they have to say, killing civilians for no particular reason, etc. That makes sense to me and is well implemented. But there are some options that I definitely agree need a second look. And, unfortunately, that will likely not see one.

Ganwald's Avatar

12.30.2011 , 08:29 PM | #137
Quote: Originally Posted by Vrumpt View Post
its not even about the gear anymore, its the fact that we are being punished for making our own decisions.

If you play as either all light or all dark, then you aren't making your own decisions; you are making the decisions you are supposed to make. They aren't your own, the are the right ones you are supposed to make because you have to choose them to get any positive rewards.
Personally, I am choosing to do all light (thus far) because that's the side I'm choosing as a player, on my own, and the decisions that happen to fall under the light category are the ones I want to make. Some players want to be evil, and some want to be good, that's still a decision.

deneeve's Avatar

12.30.2011 , 09:01 PM | #138
Quote: Originally Posted by Vrumpt View Post

Its not even enough to have to add a neutral set of items, because that still forces the player to play one of 3 correct ways; dark, neutral or light. The entire concept of gear with any alignment requirement is counterproductive to the "play your own story" philosophy that SWTOR is based on and is being advertised as.

The entire concept of choice here is an illusion. Right now there is no choice, its either all dark or all light. The penalty for choosing otherwise is an entire equipment slot.

This is such a huge issue with me. For a game emphasizing story it's doing a really poor job of it. I don't know what kind of crack they were smoking when they decided to tie gear with alignment. Alignment should in NO WAY be tied to gear. The only thing it should affect is your character's story and how npcs interact with you due to the decisions you make. It's incredibly counterproductive with the current system. It just encourages people to either blindly hit blue or red. And saying "but you can play the way you want and do diplomacy to grind out points later on" is a complete **** way of justifying this horrible system. So don't even try to bring that up.

Mograth's Avatar

12.30.2011 , 09:42 PM | #139
Bioware always had trouble understand morality for what it actually is, they always only had good or evil. And I do not mean what society tells you is morally right. It's all about what is right for you as a person. Do you think it's right to put down a criminal that murdered, because a life pays for a life? Or do you think he should be locked away? These are choices we make for ourselves and the same is true for Characters we play (even more so, because we are free to make these choices, while we would in reality probably be locked away.)
I wish I could be a Jawa Bounty Hunter

Mnemnosyne's Avatar

12.30.2011 , 11:10 PM | #140
The light and dark choices are, as usual, insanely ludicrous anyway. For instance, on Hutta there's a quest where you can choose to help some starving settlers. While doing this, someone else comes along and claims that if you help the starving settlers, his family will be killed, so he wants you to betray the person providing them food. For some bizarre reason, helping him is light side, and not betraying the settlers is dark side. So what, is his family more worthy of life than everyone who the person he wants to eliminate is trading food to?

I turned off the indicator that tells me what actions are light and dark on several characters, and simply by doing what I believe the character would do, I've wound up with my alignment pretty neutral. Sometimes it goes into light 1 or dark 1, but it can bounce back and forth. So, in order to fill both relic slots on these characters my only choice is to run a bunch of completely out-of-character missions or flashpoints to artificially inflate my Light or Dark meter, just so I can obtain the loot I want.

And on the light/dark equipment, it's ludicrous that crystal colors are light/dark restricted. Apparently it is now canon in Star Wars that a darkside character is physically incapable of wielding a blue lightsaber for some unexplained reason. Whee.
-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
Ailanreanter, Arcanaloth