For those of you who participated and disagreed with my arguments in the thread about the potential immersion-breaker of all of us being "THE" Outlander, I have in a way re-iterated the argument here from a different perspective, one that doesn't assume that all people share my perspective on the supposed existance of some sort of problem within an exclusively single-player the story-world.

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The expansion, with no meaningful new and integrated group content, is a test.

If it proves sustainable, in that subscriptions do not go down by too much and cartel market sales continue to bring in cash, group content will never again be added to this game. Why would it? It requires a lot of resources, the money is coming in anyway, so why not focus on less costly things and increase the profit margin?

If you expect a fair portion of your subscription-based-MMO to have new group content on a regular basis, make your voice heard NOW, because in a year it will be too late. If they aren't actually working on anything right now, when will they start? When will it be released?

The unsettling part of this is that they aren't working on anything, they are waiting to see how many fools keep paying for this single-player bonanza that is KotFE. And if the cash keeps coming in, it's obviously "what people want", right? So what motivation would they have to add anything else?

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

One thing I ask in this thread ... for those of you who don't care about group content, so be it, but please be careful when yet again defending BW in your comments here. Your calls for more story have already been heard and implemented in KotFE. The addition of meaningfully integrated group content will hopefully enhance even your story experience and give incentive for people who are interested in group play to keep playing and paying, and then everybody wins.

Nonsense.

Different thread.. same nonsense IMO.

Giving them money when you don't think any group content will be coming ever again is the wrong way to approach change.

Agreed. As I have stated elsewhere, I bought a 6 month-sub about 3 weeks before KotFE was announced, so I am sort of trapped for the time being until it runs out.

But with regards to sending a message, I don't think there's anything wrong with those who want group content making their voices heard on the forums. If no one says anything, BW has every right to assume that everyone is happy.

Agreed. As I have stated elsewhere, I bought a 6 month-sub about 3 weeks before KotFE was announced, so I am sort of trapped for the time being until it runs out.

No you're not. Delete your credit card information and walk away. No one is trapped to this game.

Actually SWTOR is in the increased cost mode. This is indeed a test. A test, whether it's worth to invest even more money. You may not like where the money goes, but this is not the less costly thing.

FPs and Ops can be made by the salaried devs, even when they have no budget for outsourcing anything, they can have the janitor record a few grunts for the bosses. Cutscene-based storytelling with lots of fully voiced dialogue that respects previous decisions is where the real costs are.

Agreed. As I have stated elsewhere, I bought a 6 month-sub about 3 weeks before KotFE was announced, so I am sort of trapped for the time being until it runs out.

 

But with regards to sending a message, I don't think there's anything wrong with those who want group content making their voices heard on the forums. If no one says anything, BW has every right to assume that everyone is happy.

Not saying you can't make a discussion about why you're unhappy, I just think it's a wasted effort when it's easier to walk away even if you paid for a 6 month sub. Unfortunate but that's the last they'll get from you right? No need to give money to a service you are unhappy with, right?

For those of you who participated and disagreed with my arguments in the thread about the potential immersion-breaker of all of us being "THE" Outlander, I have in a way re-iterated the argument here from a different perspective, one that doesn't assume that all people share my perspective on the supposed existance of some sort of problem within an exclusively single-player the story-world.

 

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

 

The expansion, with no meaningful new and integrated group content, is a test.

 

If it proves sustainable, in that subscriptions do not go down by too much and cartel market sales continue to bring in cash, group content will never again be added to this game. Why would it? It requires a lot of resources, the money is coming in anyway, so why not focus on less constly things and increase the profit margin?

 

If you expect a fair portion of your subscription-based-MMO to have new group content on a regular basis, make your voice heard NOW, because in a year it will be too late. If they aren't actually working on anything right now, when will they start? When will it be released?

 

The unsettling this is that they aren't working on anything, they are waiting to see how many fools keep paying for this single-player bonanza that is KotFE. And if the cash keeps coming in, it's obviously "what people want", right? So what motivation would they have to add anything else?

 

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

 

One thing I ask in this thread ... for those of you who don't care about group content, so be it, but please be careful when yet again defending BW in your comments here. Your calls for more story have already been heard and implemented in KotFE. The addition of meaningfully integrated group content will hopefully enhance even your story experience and give incentive for people who are interested in group play to keep playing and paying, and then everybody wins.

They've already stated numerous times they are working on new group content, but that they also want to ensure that the group content mechanisms are fixed and working properly before they release new group content.

I don't share your cynicism but I'll be objective and honest with myself when KotFE comes out. If it sucks, I'll bail out. If it's fun, I'll stick around and keep subscribed.

Personally I don't mind "shared singleplayer" mode. I may spend most of my game time solo, but it's still a pleasure to see and talk to other players having the same experience as me.

I meant trapped for the duration of the 6 month subscription, I am not renewing.

Again, you're not being forced to be here. Think of it as a you have 6 months left to decide whether or not you wanna keep giving them money. You're not being forced to play swtor if you don't want to anymore but it's there if you want? Does that make sense?

Mubrak while you very well may be right, that doesn't change 2 things:

1. If group content (fps, ops) is ADDED on top of the costs you mention, it is a further commitment of resources
   
2. If the game is ALREADY MAKING MONEY with this new single-player concept, they have no reason to take on the additional costs of creating new group content
   

Mubrak while you very well may be right, that doesn't change 2 things:

 

 

1. If group content (fps, ops) is ADDED on top of the costs you mention, it is a further commitment of resources
   
2. If the game is ALREADY MAKING MONEY with this new single-player concept, they have no reason to take on the additional costs of creating new group content
   

Shure they do. People are asking for it, just like people were asking for more class/personal story. BW is a Story focused gaming company and they decided they wanted to focus on the class/personal story aspect of it this expansion more heavily while they update their current group content systems so that they can add more future group content more easily using the new system.

Shure they do. People are asking for it, just like people were asking for more class/personal story. BW is a Story focused gaming company and they decided they wanted to focus on the class/personal story aspect of it this expansion more heavily while they update their current group content systems so that they can add more future group content more easily using the new system.

Exactly. They've basically already admitted that the way Ops currently work makes it harder to introduce new content and they are working on fixing that so it works better and is easier to introduce new content. But they've already admitted they are working on new group content, most recently at the Gamescom Cantina if you read the Q&A thats posted. It just wont be released with the expansion because a) The expansion itself is largely focusing on what most people seem to want - Story and personal choice and b) they need to fix the current system so the MMO bits work better and easier to easily release new content.

I would be happy to give BW the benefit of the doubt on this but from a business standpoint it seems completely illogical for them to actually be working on group content or the systems that support it right now. There are a smart bunch of folks guiding this game from the business end who probably have access to metrics and stats of which we can only dream. So why wouldn't they test the hypothesis that I postulated in the first post? Give it a run as a single-player game and see if it keeps making money. If it does, so be it. They will soon know exactly how many subscribers they will lose and will be able to very quickly project the cost effectiveness of the game going forward in this way.

If it works, then that's the end of FPs and OPS.

If it doesn't work, they will have to either:

1. Pull the plug (worst case scenario)
   
2. Re-invest into group content (probably not going to happen)
   
3. Yet again re-think their business model (compare Elder Scrolls Online)
   

I would be happy to give BW the benefit of the doubt on this but from a business standpoint it seems completely illogical for them to actually be working on group content or the systems that support it right now. There are a smart bunch of folks guiding this game from the business end who probably have access to metrics and stats of which we can only dream. So why wouldn't they test the hypothesis that I postulated in the first post? Give it a run as a single-player game and see if it keeps making money. If it does, so be it. They will soon know exactly how many subscribers they will lose and will be able to very quickly project the cost effectiveness of the game going forward in this way.

 

If it works, then that's the end of FPs and OPS.

 

If it doesn't work, they will have to either:

 

1. Pull the plug (worst case scenario)
   
2. Re-invest into group content (probably not going to happen)
   
3. Yet again re-think their business model (compare Elder Scrolls Online)
   

Then the door is right there. Dont let it hit you on the *** as you leave. No one is forcing you to stay here and be involved in this conspiracy youve concocted out of thin air.

I really don't understand the hostility that I am encountering on this topic.

I am:

1. Asking for group content
   
2. Trying to understand BW/EA's strategy on the matter
   
3. Trying to encourage others who want new group content to make their voices heard, lest it be eliminated from the game forever
   

Why does this bother some of you so much?

I really don't understand the hostility that I am encountering on this topic.

 

I am:

 

1. Asking for group content
   
2. Trying to understand BW/EA's strategy on the matter
   
3. Trying to encourage others who want new group content to make their voices heard, lest it be eliminated from the game forever
   

 

Why does this bother some of you so much?

You arent asking for group content. You are creathing a giant conspiracy theory claiming they are testing whether they ever have to provide group content again, and dismissing the actual things the devs are saying when they say group content is coming and spouting yet again that this is all a test to do away with group content if they can make money.

but ill bite. You say you are just asking for group content. The answer is, group content is coming. Just not right away. This isnt some conspiracy, this iant some test. Ir is what it is. They are focusing on story content at the beginning because, like it or not, thats what the majority of people want. At the same time, they admit that they need the mmo bits, the operations and flashpoints, and are already developing those to release. Just not right away.

I really don't understand the hostility that I am encountering on this topic.

 

I am:

 

1. Asking for group content
   
2. Trying to understand BW/EA's strategy on the matter
   
3. Trying to encourage others who want new group content to make their voices heard, lest it be eliminated from the game forever
   

 

Why does this bother some of you so much?

Sorry if it came off as like that but I'm not giving you hostility, just trying to help you get your point better across.

Sorry, but the no coming group content ever... don't buy it. It may be reduced, but it will not be ever...

Look, I actually believe their explanation as to WHY no new group content at first. LOTRO went thru the same thing when they scaled instances to level. It took a lot of time to rescale content before they could add new, and get the system to work so that when new was added, it automatically scaled.

It's going to be a (well probably has been) a huge undertaking just to scale what we have now. They have to go thru, adjust, and then test EVERY instance with EVERY AC. It's not plug and play simple to rewrite the encounters. We have already seen what happens when they rush changes with increased cap and skill changes. The "classic" instance buff only works in half the OP instances. They completely ignored anything pre 50 with skill changes. All of this has to be redone. Just be patient.

The answer is, group content is coming. Just not right away [...snip..]. they admit that they need the mmo bits, the operations and flashpoints, and are already developing those to release. Just not right away.

If that is true and meaningful new group content (story integrated HM fps and ops) does come out by, say, next spring (which would mean that they are truly working on it right now), then I will come back here and eat my hat. Right now, I just don't buy it, no matter what they are saying. Some may call my posture a conspiracy theory, I call it analyzing the EA/BW hype-machine for what it is.

If that is true and meaningful new group content (story integrated HM fps and ops) does come out by, say, next spring (which would mean that they are truly working on it right now), then I will come back here and eat my hat. Right now, I just don't buy it, no matter what they are saying. Some may call my posture a conspiracy theory, I call it analyzing the EA/BW hype-machine for what it is.

So you wont be satisfied unless they release exactly what YOU want when YOU want it? Why are you even here then? Because they are always going to disappoint you since, news flash, they dont actually operate on your calendar. Personally, I'd rather have group content that works rather than rushed content because people like you want it NAOW.

they can have the janitor record a few grunts for the bosses.

This is too damn funny!

Thanks for the laughs

There is plenty of known desire for more group content. Be it warzones, flashpoints, operations, gsf, guild mechanics, etc...

This thread is not a plea for more group content. It is based around a theory that is quite bologna; that there won't be any group content ever again. The game is definitely getting money reinvested into it. The quality of what they have shown far is cause for extremely cautious optimism for additional story. I personally don't mind the level-scaling operation plan, and I hope that ops are coming sooner than later... but at this point there is no reason to believe they are never coming and that this is all one giant scam. Yeah, they're doing things to increase revenue (the subscriber rewards are as much and anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves), but that's not inherently bad.

All in all, you've said your peace, but there is still no reason to believe it's nothing more than rampant cynicism.