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Immortal Juggernaut/Defense Guardian Set Bonus Discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Immortal Juggernaut/Defense Guardian Set Bonus Discussion
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Luckygunslinger's Avatar


Luckygunslinger
07.15.2015 , 04:59 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Mr_Fuzzle View Post
I know you're quite "knowledgeable" about Guardian tanks, but for proper aggro generation on a Guardian running with competent DPS for certain fights, the taunt cooldown reduction is quite nice and helps achieve a full 18 second taunt cycle off the bat. Additionally you can help out your raid group with Guardianship more often on things like HM Revan. More casual players who taunt at the wrong times can more quickly overcome their mistakes. Threat gen is not an issue with competent tanks, but competent tanks make use of the tools they have to achieve that goal. This does include taunts. I wonder when you'll update your guide to include an opener that will hold against competent dps...
I don't disagree with what you're saying at all. But in the opener, to be fair, the 4-piece only benefits single target taunt. Which is true, you can lock the boss to you for 18 seconds which is nice but the 4-piece doesn't make or break tanking. Now, I'm not trying to demean the 4-piece at all, it's boring but fine, it's required for one strat in HM but beyond that, it's not really required. I do agree Guardianship helps the raid but in scenarios where you need to delay AOE Taunt because you're out of range or don't have aggro, it undoes that benefit of reducing the CD.

Quote:
As for what you said about Blade Turning, in the majority of current content yes, Blade turning is not that useful. However in future operations (fingers crossed here), it may be. Besides, Saber Ward is by far one of the worst cooldowns Guardians have for current content. For your statement at the end of that comment, there is no way to bring back the Sonic Barrier buff that isn't trivial. It really doesn't amount to much and honestly you won't notice a difference. The set bonus increase to Warding Call is fine, it gives incentive to get the 6 piece.
I would have agreed with that blade turning assessment in 2.0 when Dread Palace was rocking. Issue is, we've now seen 4 operations in a row with a tech/force bias over Melee/Range, so it appears that we're not gonna be seeing an inevitable change in this ratio. And though I agree with the 6-piece the issue is that the 6-piece feels baseline, that's my point. It's a solid good set bonus, issue is, I don't see why 12 seconds is not a standard thing. With Warding Call being the best CD in HM Rav and TOS for Guardians since so much of the damage is Tech/Force, especially Revan, yes the 6-piece is the way to go. My thing is make Warding Call 12 seconds off the bat, add the blade turning bonus to increase say... Force/Tech Resist chance by 50% (i.e Explosive Fuel-esque nature) on top of duration. As for the barrier buff, there are various ways, even a rough 30% increase is optimal enough. It's not a big deal over all. Something would be a change but in the end, the 6-piece isn't horrible, just, boring.

Quote:
I know you've appointed yourself king Guardian and our representative, but honestly you need to think about things before you post (yes this is going to piss you off). The current set bonus is actually fine unlike for DPS Guardians.
If you say so? I don't think of myself as a representative or king of Guardian. I like the class and I like to help the community. But if you feel like the set bonus is fine /closethread and no one else post. But if you have no ideas to bring to the table, why even come into the thread?

Quote:
The best way to improve the set bonus is to tie the taunt CD reset to Blade Storm to somewhat keep up with Vanguards. Other than that, there is little work to be done to fix this not broken set bonus.
Taunt to reset Bladestorm? That's even more insane than increase the barrier's threshold. To have pretty much a back to back barrier by taunt fluffing. Sorry but that's just out of the realm of balanced vs. a 20% to 30% sonic barrier increase.

Artorias
5/5 HM Rav - Revanchist - HM ToS 5/5
Rage - Immortal - Guides - Defense - Focus

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
07.15.2015 , 05:58 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Luckygunslinger View Post
Taunt to reset Bladestorm? That's even more insane than increase the barrier's threshold. To have pretty much a back to back barrier by taunt fluffing. Sorry but that's just out of the realm of balanced vs. a 20% to 30% sonic barrier increase.
I'm pretty sure he means adding force scream to the things that reduce the active CD on taunt with the 4piece. Because powertech do have a bit of an unfair advantage with heat blast, since it's usable way more often than what juggernauts and assassins have.

Mr_Fuzzle's Avatar


Mr_Fuzzle
07.15.2015 , 08:31 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
I'm pretty sure he means adding force scream to the things that reduce the active CD on taunt with the 4piece. Because powertech do have a bit of an unfair advantage with heat blast, since it's usable way more often than what juggernauts and assassins have.
Ding ding ding we have a reader.
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Boracarpe the Revanchist - Shield Tech Vanguard <Republic Gentlemen>
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Camelpockets's Avatar


Camelpockets
07.15.2015 , 08:40 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandLordMenace View Post
Gonna butt in and say that for PVP the bonus is fine.

Let the drama continue /passespopcornout
Is there any left? I could use a little
"We have winnowed all futures. The cull endures. It is optimal. It is necessary." - Shiva
Camels the Revanchist
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ArenCordial's Avatar


ArenCordial
07.15.2015 , 10:52 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Camelpockets View Post
Is there any left? I could use a little
Doubtful Rydarus stacks a lot of alacrity so that popcorn goes fast.

Methoxa's Avatar


Methoxa
07.16.2015 , 02:17 AM | #26
Quote:
Sorry but that's just out of the realm of balanced vs. a 20% to 30% sonic barrier increase.
Sonic Barrier absorbs currently 1700 damage all 12 seconds. Increasing the amount to 3400 damage all 12 seconds wouldnt be near unbalanced. Thats a 283 dtps decrease compared to the former 141 dtps decrease. Furthermore Juggs are the tanks receiving the most damage in most fights in current and former content.
Revanchist

Noyjitat's Avatar


Noyjitat
07.17.2015 , 12:54 AM | #27
My biggest complaint since launch day is my tanks get knocked around or stunlocked way too much in flashpoints and operations. Even with that 4 second knockback resistance buff, it still isn't enough (and sometimes it doesn't even work at all since the buff isn't applied until after you force leap and smarter enemies attack you while you're leaping)

I'd rather see a flat chance to not be knocked down (I dunno 5% chance to dodge a knockback?) further cooldown reduction options on Unleash. Whether it's getting stunned reduces the cooldown of unleash by 5 seconds or what I dunno. As of now you can reduce it to 1 min 30 seconds but when every trash mob has multiple foes with a stun it seems kinda pointless. (perhaps that's the real issue with too much knockback and stuns)

Really the only new setbonuses i'd want. Much everything else is fine on my jugg (minus the lack of a lightning power)

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
07.18.2015 , 06:09 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Noyjitat View Post
My biggest complaint since launch day is my tanks get knocked around or stunlocked way too much in flashpoints and operations. Even with that 4 second knockback resistance buff, it still isn't enough (and sometimes it doesn't even work at all since the buff isn't applied until after you force leap and smarter enemies attack you while you're leaping)

I'd rather see a flat chance to not be knocked down (I dunno 5% chance to dodge a knockback?) further cooldown reduction options on Unleash. Whether it's getting stunned reduces the cooldown of unleash by 5 seconds or what I dunno. As of now you can reduce it to 1 min 30 seconds but when every trash mob has multiple foes with a stun it seems kinda pointless. (perhaps that's the real issue with too much knockback and stuns)

Really the only new setbonuses i'd want. Much everything else is fine on my jugg (minus the lack of a lightning power)
I don't know, that's really only a trash pull thing, isn't it? I'd rather have set bonuses that are more useful for bosses.

xAZUREx's Avatar


xAZUREx
07.20.2015 , 07:11 AM | #29
2: Shield X%
4: Absorb X%
6: Defense X%
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There is no force, there is only FUS RO DAH

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
07.21.2015 , 04:10 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by xAZUREx View Post
2: Shield X%
4: Absorb X%
6: Defense X%
Seems pretty boring to me, I'd rather keep the current set bonuses than this.