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Vengeance and Rage Juggernaut/Vigilance and Focus Guardian Set Bonus Discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Vengeance and Rage Juggernaut/Vigilance and Focus Guardian Set Bonus Discussion
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AdrianDmitruk's Avatar


AdrianDmitruk
07.13.2015 , 07:53 PM | #21
I agree that the 4 pc needs to be made baseline. Set bonuses that change rotations are not cool because they turn a bonus into a requirement.

I would, however, note that the MS replacement suggestion that seems to be a popular idea to replace the 4pc benefits Vengeance a hell of a lot more than it does Rage. In an environment where set bonuses are standardized and we aren't supposed to have a choice of which set bonus to use anymore, that is neither fair nor good game design.

I'd change it to "Increases the damage of Master Strike or Smash by 8%" or maybe tone it down to 5% if it increases DPS by too much. That makes it relevant to Rage, and Vengeance should be using Vengeful Slam, not Smash.

FWIW, I only have the new 4pc and I kept the old 2pc. I'm not a big fan of the 6pc even though the community consensus is that the 6pc comes out ahead due to raid mobility requirements forcing us to clip Ravage. I'd note that it took a long time for the community to reach that consensus. The rate limit seems too high for the bonus to be noticed, unless doing content such as dailies where there is frequent but short downtime between pulls. If the rate limit exceeds 30 seconds, it should be tied to a Recklessness-type cooldown instead of a set bonus proc so we can control it, IMO.
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LudhaninRolgge's Avatar


LudhaninRolgge
07.13.2015 , 08:21 PM | #22
In french, the 4 pc is bugged and instead of saying that the min distance for saber throw is reduced from 10m to 0, it says that the damage done by force scream or blade storm are increased by 8%. Both spec use it rotationally, it could be an idea. And since you end up breaking the channel of master strike/ravage most the time in real boss fight, it could be more beneficial.

Triipp's Avatar


Triipp
07.14.2015 , 03:58 PM | #23
I agree with the saberthrow min range 0m should be baseline...

Other than that, I like the set bonuses how they are, gives you a nice burst when used right.

GrandLordMenace's Avatar


GrandLordMenace
07.14.2015 , 04:28 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by AdrianDmitruk View Post
I agree that the 4 pc needs to be made baseline. Set bonuses that change rotations are not cool because they turn a bonus into a requirement.

I would, however, note that the MS replacement suggestion that seems to be a popular idea to replace the 4pc benefits Vengeance a hell of a lot more than it does Rage. In an environment where set bonuses are standardized and we aren't supposed to have a choice of which set bonus to use anymore, that is neither fair nor good game design.

I'd change it to "Increases the damage of Master Strike or Smash by 8%" or maybe tone it down to 5% if it increases DPS by too much. That makes it relevant to Rage, and Vengeance should be using Vengeful Slam, not Smash.

FWIW, I only have the new 4pc and I kept the old 2pc. I'm not a big fan of the 6pc even though the community consensus is that the 6pc comes out ahead due to raid mobility requirements forcing us to clip Ravage. I'd note that it took a long time for the community to reach that consensus. The rate limit seems too high for the bonus to be noticed, unless doing content such as dailies where there is frequent but short downtime between pulls. If the rate limit exceeds 30 seconds, it should be tied to a Recklessness-type cooldown instead of a set bonus proc so we can control it, IMO.
Except that's not entirely true. Rage used the 2pc sentinel bonus back in the day OVER blade storm's bonus because it simply did more damage. Plus, Ravage has a lot shorter cooldown than it did in the past. IMHO, the bonus benefits both specs. Ravage is still an integral part of the rage sustained rotation.
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znihilist's Avatar


znihilist
07.14.2015 , 04:29 PM | #25
Even if the 6pc is staying the same, please add more ways to proc it instead of just Saber Throw.
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GrandLordMenace's Avatar


GrandLordMenace
07.14.2015 , 04:29 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by LudhaninRolgge View Post
In french, the 4 pc is bugged and instead of saying that the min distance for saber throw is reduced from 10m to 0, it says that the damage done by force scream or blade storm are increased by 8%. Both spec use it rotationally, it could be an idea. And since you end up breaking the channel of master strike/ravage most the time in real boss fight, it could be more beneficial.
IT wouldn't be more beneficial. There are other ways to decrease reliance on Ravage, but the fact is that the blade storm bonus is ****.

Also, increasing reliance on Ravage is a GOOD thing. It promotes this little thing called skill, or more accurately, basic awareness.
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Lamendra's Avatar


Lamendra
07.14.2015 , 04:32 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandLordMenace View Post
Make the 4set a default part of the ability of Saber Throw itself.

Replace the 4set with a 8% damage boost to Master Strike.

Tack on for the 6pc an option for it to proc from Blade Storm, not just Saber Throw.

New Level 60 Set Bonuses
  • 2-Piece: Sundering Assault or Sundering Strike increases damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 30 of seconds.
  • 4-Piece: Increases the Damage of Master Strike/Ravage by 8%
  • 6-Piece: Activating Saber Throw and Blade Storm or Saber Throw and Force Scream will grant Vindicator's Critical Bonus making your next Impale and Furious Strike or Overhead Slash and Concentrated Slice critically hit. This effect cannot occur more than once every minute.

    Misc: Saber Throw now has a range of 0 to 30 meters.
I'm on board with this actually. It's what I was already going to suggest.

Edit: Fixed for you breh. Play a Jug sometime will ya?
Also keep in mind that 8% damage bonus was meant for Marauders when Ravage was 30 Second CD. If they do implement that 4 Set bonus, I imagine the % is going to be adjusted to match the 5% goal they want. Expect to see a 2-4% on that if it gets put into the gear.
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Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
07.14.2015 , 04:59 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by znihilist View Post
Even if the 6pc is staying the same, please add more ways to proc it instead of just Saber Throw.
I think saber throw proccing is is perfectly fine. Its easy to keep track of the ICD with saber throw since its a 30s CD. Doesn't really need any other ways to proc it.

GrandLordMenace's Avatar


GrandLordMenace
07.14.2015 , 06:48 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Lamendra View Post
I'm on board with this actually. It's what I was already going to suggest.

Edit: Fixed for you breh. Play a Jug sometime will ya?
Also keep in mind that 8% damage bonus was meant for Marauders when Ravage was 30 Second CD. If they do implement that 4 Set bonus, I imagine the % is going to be adjusted to match the 5% goal they want. Expect to see a 2-4% on that if it gets put into the gear.
8% wouldn't increase our DPS by more than 5%, unless Master Strike suddenly makes up like 80% of our damage, which it doesn't. It would only be a 1 or 2% increase at most.
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waterboytkd's Avatar


waterboytkd
07.14.2015 , 06:59 PM | #30
As long as we're talking about no min range on Saber Throw as a baseline, why not an Force Leap/Charge, too? I still don't understand why the only ranged abilities in the game with a minimum range are on a pure melee class.

Rather than boosting specific abilities' damages, why not have 1 damage buff at the 2 piece, an auto-crit buff at the 6 piece, and then some kind of universal utility at the 4 piece? In the Sent/Mara thread, I suggested some kind of healing that was a % of Master Strike/Ravage's damage. As Veng has a different MS/Ravage damage than Rage, it would probably have to be a different ability, if a self-healing route was taken (which could be overkill given the potency of ED/FD).

If we did get a self-heal, something that could be unique-ish and differentiate the specs more would be if DoTs healed a % of their damage (for Veng) and Furious Strike healed a % of its damage (for Rage), giving Veng the type of self-heals better in a sustained dps fight, while Rage got better self-heals in a burst dps fight.
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