We were getting close to being high-level PvP-viable for a brief interval, but now the proliferation of melée roots/snares and immunities have mooted our previous gains. I think the needs of the Advanced Class are fairly straight forward. At the top of the list is one solid anti-focus ability - this is a must have to save us from being the obvious arena bait we currently are. In the nice-to-have category are decent defensive cooldowns (we've always been lacking in that department: we have too few, and those we have are mediocre), and some immunities. We're the most 'controllable' AC in the game - we're the most leapable, force-pushable, and stun-able class with nothing to counter but the always-too-late Resolution White Bar....on top of this, our KB's, single stun, single-target looooong-cast mez are readily countered by any number of immunities possessed by other classes. So in this order, imho the fix for the AC is: an anti-focus trick, decent defensive cooldowns, and a few proc'd or activated immunities on par with other classes, in particular other casting classes. Edited July 6, 2015 by klham

1. Go ahead with the 3.3 changes but reduce Rapid Scan's cost to 10 for IO/Arsenal.

2. Give us 30% reduced damage while stunned as a passive.

3. Replace one of our garbage heroic utilities with the PT overdrive HO speed booster.

 

One can dream, right?

I agree mercs need anti focus (there were threads about it, and i gave ideas there, no response), for better defensives, they should get passives, like PTs do, even if you got the same would be better (like arsenal getting the same as AP and IO getting Pyrotech's, but Bodyguard needs more love, too). Idk if HO speed boost is needed, but it'd clearly be good alternative for replacing defensive utilities.

Btw believe me, you are just close second for being most stun-susceptible behind mara

Have to say, I give major props to anyone playing Mercenary right now. I've actually got two level 60 Mercenaries and I actually find Innovative Ordinance to be a lot of fun. It's just when you get caught in close quarters by +1 melee it can be a nightmare to get some space. You spend too much time chain casting weak defensives before you can get any damage off.

 

I just want to be able to peel off and have a chance at turning the fight.

How about we don't balance around solo ranked? Better yet, can we remove solo ranked so BW never even considers balancing around it?

How about we don't balance around solo ranked? Better yet, can we remove solo ranked so BW never even considers balancing around it?

 

Well, numerous people told the Devs that balancing around 4v4, even teamed ranked, was going to be a nightmare and not to do it. Same people even linked the WoW dev comment about arenas being one of the worst things that they ever implemented.

 

However it all fell on deaf ears.

 

So, now we are stuck with 4v4 and all the drawbacks. BW is going to need to start balancing around it, even Yolo, because the short comings that a merc has in yolo are the exact same ones that they have in team. Just much more pronounced.

 

There, honestly, is no real reason to take a dps merc over any other dps class. The merc/mando classes require far, far more babysitting in order to be playable in team ranked than any other class with the least amount of pay off if a team does babysit them.

 

So either mercs/mandos need to be buffed to bring them up to the levels of other classes or the other classes need to be nerfed to be brought down to the merc/mando level.

Well, numerous people told the Devs that balancing around 4v4, even teamed ranked, was going to be a nightmare and not to do it. Same people even linked the WoW dev comment about arenas being one of the worst things that they ever implemented.

 

However it all fell on deaf ears.

 

So, now we are stuck with 4v4 and all the drawbacks. BW is going to need to start balancing around it, even Yolo, because the short comings that a merc has in yolo are the exact same ones that they have in team. Just much more pronounced.

 

There, honestly, is no real reason to take a dps merc over any other dps class. The merc/mando classes require far, far more babysitting in order to be playable in team ranked than any other class with the least amount of pay off if a team does babysit them.

 

So either mercs/mandos need to be buffed to bring them up to the levels of other classes or the other classes need to be nerfed to be brought down to the merc/mando level.

 

No, 4v4 should have never been implemented, but lets not dumb the game down even further by trying to balance solo queue. It will NEVER work.

How about we don't balance around solo ranked? Better yet, can we remove solo ranked so BW never even considers balancing around it?

 

Even in group ranked we are the most squishy class. All the other classes defensives, immunities and anti focus abilities shine even MORE in group ranked. Even IF they balanced around grouped, commandos STILL need those things.

Yeah dps mercs are even worse off than non-mm snipers. It's like snipers without cover. The heals in DPS are barely worth mentioning.

 

Go ahead and not balance around YOLO but let's not call the class fine in regs just because PUGs there let them free cast.

Yeah dps mercs are even worse off than non-mm snipers. It's like snipers without cover. The heals in DPS are barely worth mentioning.

 

Go ahead and not balance around YOLO but let's not call the class fine in regs just because PUGs there let them free cast.

 

They are fine in regs....every AC is fine in regs. In team ranked I'd rather have a sniper but I've seen teams with mercs destroy people. E-net is not something to just write off. Its pretty valuable with certain comps.

They are fine in regs....every AC is fine in regs. In team ranked I'd rather have a sniper but I've seen teams with mercs destroy people. E-net is not something to just write off. Its pretty valuable with certain comps.

 

Fine in regs? Really? The only time a merc / mando DPS is fine in regs 4 v 4 is if they are facing an entire team of complete idiots. Even in regs the focus is till merc / mando. The only difference between ranked and regs is you increase the likelihood that the players you are up against aren't in top of the line gear with augments. So you last a few seconds longer than you do in ranked. And maybe even long enough for your team mates to take down a member of the opposing team.

 

I have all but given up on doing warzones on my mando / merc (both dps). They have their place in 8 v 8, but they are just a liability to any team in 4 v 4.

 

It is a pity too. I'll put my mando against anybody in a 1 v 1 fight. I may not win, but you are definitely going to think twice about attacking me again.

To the OP ...

 

The Merc / mando community has been asking for an focus break for a long time now. With no response from the devs. I really don't see it happening now or in the future. Frankly, I think the devs believe that giving them a focus break will make the classes too powerful. Give them a focus break and they become a glass cannon without the glass.

 

But what we got to work with doesn't work either. When we have to attempt to activate multiple defenses to get something that is still inferior to what many classes have with one ability, I can't help but to shake my head. The classes just are not viable right now in 4 v 4.

Fine in regs? Really? The only time a merc / mando DPS is fine in regs 4 v 4 is if they are facing an entire team of complete idiots. Even in regs the focus is till merc / mando. The only difference between ranked and regs is you increase the likelihood that the players you are up against aren't in top of the line gear with augments. So you last a few seconds longer than you do in ranked. And maybe even long enough for your team mates to take down a member of the opposing team.

 

I have all but given up on doing warzones on my mando / merc (both dps). They have their place in 8 v 8, but they are just a liability to any team in 4 v 4.

 

It is a pity too. I'll put my mando against anybody in a 1 v 1 fight. I may not win, but you are definitely going to think twice about attacking me again.

 

So now we should be balancing them around the randomness of 4v4 regs? When I say regs, I'm talking about 8v8, which they are perfectly fine in. Hell, I haven't seen a 4v4 match in regs in nearly two weeks. It rarely pops for me....then again neither does huttball.....dammit I want more huttball but I don't think I've seen that map in almost a month. All I ever get is hypercrap -_-

Edited July 6, 2015 by Raansu

They are fine in regs....every AC is fine in regs. In team ranked I'd rather have a sniper but I've seen teams with mercs destroy people. E-net is not something to just write off. Its pretty valuable with certain comps.

 

I disagree with what you might consider "fine." When we look at why all classes and specs are fine in regs it has almost nothing to do with the class itself, and all to do with other factors such as less adept enemies or objectives to draw focus. When you come across a good group of enemies, those classes that are just "fine in regs" are no better off than they are in 4s.

I disagree with what you might consider "fine." When we look at why all classes and specs are fine in regs it has almost nothing to do with the class itself, and all to do with other factors such as less adept enemies or objectives to draw focus. When you come across a good group of enemies, those classes that are just "fine in regs" are no better off than they are in 4s.

 

"group of enemies" So you want to walk away from a 3v1 is what you're saying? Cool, no problem, here's invincible mode for ya!

"group of enemies" So you want to walk away from a 3v1 is what you're saying? Cool, no problem, here's invincible mode for ya!

 

No. Just wouldn't mind having the tools that some of the other classes have. I don't even play merc or commando as one sat since hitting 55 and the other is just a crafter, but its no secret that even though they are a healer with ranged DPS, their heals are nowhere near a sorc and they have nothing even comparable the bubble and heal to full.

 

\In before you take it to class homogonization or one of the other plug and play excuses of why a merc is fine or any class is fine compared to another. Maybe its because sorcs are OP, but truth be told, you could take a lot away from sorc and they'd still have it better than a merc, until you take it just a little too far then have paper sorcs again that just die by being sneezed at.

"group of enemies" So you want to walk away from a 3v1 is what you're saying? Cool, no problem, here's invincible mode for ya!

Has nothing to do with 3v1...we'd like to live beyond 6 seconds in 4v4 even. Every other class has a great OH $#!^ button besides Merc/Mando...just looking for some balance.

Has nothing to do with 3v1...we'd like to live beyond 6 seconds in 4v4 even. Every other class has a great OH $#!^ button besides Merc/Mando...just looking for some balance.

 

Which goes back to my original post. Balancing around the randomness of solo ranked should NEVER happen. You guys want tools for solo ranked, a queue that shouldn't even exist. PvP has been dumb down enough as is. Balancing around solo ranked would just make things 10x worse. I've seen mercs perform perfectly fine in teams and they are perfectly fine in 8v8 regs.

Has nothing to do with 3v1...we'd like to live beyond 6 seconds in 4v4 even. Every other class has a great OH $#!^ button besides Merc/Mando...just looking for some balance.

 

Lies, I use that button every day. It's on my login screen. It says "Play" and it's next to basically every other character I have.

Lies, I use that button every day. It's on my login screen. It says "Play" and it's next to basically every other character I have.

HA! Well done, especially for a Monday...it's going to be a good week

Supporting this thread.

 

Merc needs love as much as Sniper does.

1. Go ahead with the 3.3 changes but reduce Rapid Scan's cost to 10 for IO/Arsenal.

2. Give us 30% reduced damage while stunned as a passive.

3. Replace one of our garbage heroic utilities with the PT overdrive HO speed booster.

 

One can dream, right?

I like number 2, but there are quite a few "necessary" heroic utilities even "as is." even if you build stabilized armor (30% passive DR on stun & aoe) into the discipline(s), thrill of the hunt and a second power override are necessary utilities. taking the cd off of rapid scan also makes that 2nd power override more valuable (so you either don't lose your 5 stacks on a heal or so you can build them up more quickly).

 

but I'm also bias against super HO. I want it removed from the game rather than given to more classes.

Which goes back to my original post. Balancing around the randomness of solo ranked should NEVER happen. You guys want tools for solo ranked, a queue that shouldn't even exist. PvP has been dumb down enough as is. Balancing around solo ranked would just make things 10x worse. I've seen mercs perform perfectly fine in teams and they are perfectly fine in 8v8 regs.

 

But what you suggest is a catch 22. You have to be in group to do well in ranked but you can't get in group because your class does not do well in ranked.

 

The problem is 4 v 4 is the only way to participate in ranked play. So by not balancing merc / mandos for ranked 4 v 4, the devs are denying people access to a portion of the game. And to be perfectly honest, I like the merc / mando of any of the classes in game. But yet I am also playing a monthly fee for a game that I can't potentially access all content on because of a poorly designed class in that format.

 

Had they even considered an 8 v 8 option for rank, I would probably queue rank on my mando / merc and just drop queue whenever a 4 v 4 match popped instead of an 8 v 8. But BW doesn't give us that option. It is 4 v 4 only. So to give all classes a chance, BW has to create some form of balance for this format.

 

It seems to me the solution is one of two things. One, give the merc / mandos a focus break. Two, get rid of 4 v 4 in ranked and go to 8 v 8 only.

 

To be honest, I don't see them doing either. They have been too mute on the pvp subject for way to long. Their solution is to water down regs to the point that anybody (and I do mean anybody) can get their DR set with little to no future effort.

But what you suggest is a catch 22. You have to be in group to do well in ranked but you can't get in group because your class does not do well in ranked.

 

The problem is 4 v 4 is the only way to participate in ranked play. So by not balancing merc / mandos for ranked 4 v 4, the devs are denying people access to a portion of the game. And to be perfectly honest, I like the merc / mando of any of the classes in game. But yet I am also playing a monthly fee for a game that I can't potentially access all content on because of a poorly designed class in that format.

 

Had they even considered an 8 v 8 option for rank, I would probably queue rank on my mando / merc and just drop queue whenever a 4 v 4 match popped instead of an 8 v 8. But BW doesn't give us that option. It is 4 v 4 only. So to give all classes a chance, BW has to create some form of balance for this format.

 

It seems to me the solution is one of two things. One, give the merc / mandos a focus break. Two, get rid of 4 v 4 in ranked and go to 8 v 8 only.

 

To be honest, I don't see them doing either. They have been too mute on the pvp subject for way to long. Their solution is to water down regs to the point that anybody (and I do mean anybody) can get their DR set with little to no future effort.

 

Merc/Mando can definitely be used in ranked. There are better options (I'd rather take a Sniper), but it can be used in 4s, not solo queue. All you need is a team willing to use it. There are plenty of competitive games that contain characters, classes, or whatever they may use which are not viable at the highest levels but still get used in competitive game modes.

 

Your real issue is that you always have a chance of being matched with the highest level players in this game in both solo queue and 4s. If more players/groups queued up regardless of their skill level, then an elo system may actually function in some way. But as it is, only really competitive players are willing to do ranked, and really competitive players are only interested in playing the most powerful classes/specs in an attempt to be the best.

But what you suggest is a catch 22. You have to be in group to do well in ranked but you can't get in group because your class does not do well in ranked.

 

The problem is 4 v 4 is the only way to participate in ranked play. So by not balancing merc / mandos for ranked 4 v 4, the devs are denying people access to a portion of the game. And to be perfectly honest, I like the merc / mando of any of the classes in game. But yet I am also playing a monthly fee for a game that I can't potentially access all content on because of a poorly designed class in that format.

 

Had they even considered an 8 v 8 option for rank, I would probably queue rank on my mando / merc and just drop queue whenever a 4 v 4 match popped instead of an 8 v 8. But BW doesn't give us that option. It is 4 v 4 only. So to give all classes a chance, BW has to create some form of balance for this format.

 

It seems to me the solution is one of two things. One, give the merc / mandos a focus break. Two, get rid of 4 v 4 in ranked and go to 8 v 8 only.

 

To be honest, I don't see them doing either. They have been too mute on the pvp subject for way to long. Their solution is to water down regs to the point that anybody (and I do mean anybody) can get their DR set with little to no future effort.

 

Its not a catch 22......mercs are viable in team ranked.

 

As for 8v8 ranked, I would love for that to come back, but only as teams. None of that solo ranked crap. Solo ranked queue needs to go away.