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Uh Oh, the world as we know it may come to an end

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Uh Oh, the world as we know it may come to an end

Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
07.07.2015 , 12:59 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by asbalana View Post
My crafters are afraid, very afraid.
Why? Crafting surely can't get any worse than it currently is, can it?

For a past year or more, Bioware has handled crafting as nothing more than an afterthought.

Im only using crafting to make armorings, mods, enhancements, earpieces, implants, barrels etc for my alts that are in the process of leveling. The issue is, this is easily replaceable by spending daily comms, making crafting a nice break from normal play but ultimately superfluous.
"What is a Sith? Over time, the beliefs have changed, but one constant has remained. The imposition of one's will on the force, on the environment surrounding one, on the galaxy itself." - Darth Wyyrlok III

psandak's Avatar


psandak
07.07.2015 , 10:48 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Karkais View Post
For a past year or more, Bioware has handled crafting as nothing more than an afterthought.
Um crafting has been an afterthought since launch. But this is not unusual for an MMO; most MMOs I have played the crafting system is an afterthought.
The Ortzid Legacy on The Harbinger
Car'beerd (Guardian) Dalkery (Scoundrel) Blairnah (Sage) Daellia (Merc) and 11 other characters
Understanding Crew Skills / High End Schematics / Best Crew Skills / Crew Skill Money Making / Reverse Engineering Rules / SWTOR Story to date

Noyjitat's Avatar


Noyjitat
07.07.2015 , 05:52 PM | #13
Crafting was fine until the cartel market came along and added:

*color crystals that are automatically the best you can get at level 10
*color crystals that are exclusive to the cartel market and it's packs
*color crystals that were most requested were added to the cartel market instead
*Armor and clothing that is light years more beautiful and awesome
*Nearly every mount that actually looks cool is exclusive to the cartel market. Crafting has only received a few
*weapons that look way better than armstech will ever get
*dyes most requested are largely tied to cartel market
*finally player housing was added and it is mainly split between flashpoint random drops and cartel market packs

Let's be real though, they will never change this because it would be a huge money loss for them. But they could add more exclusive items to crafting and perks for picking the skill. Such as stat bonuses, special item modification slots, and temp powers like wow eventually got.

They copied wow's new stupid and generic talent tree system so I'm sure the above will happen sooner than later anyway.

DawnAskham's Avatar


DawnAskham
07.07.2015 , 07:17 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Noyjitat View Post
Crafting was fine until the cartel market came along and added:

*color crystals that are automatically the best you can get at level 10
*color crystals that are exclusive to the cartel market and it's packs
*color crystals that were most requested were added to the cartel market instead
*Armor and clothing that is light years more beautiful and awesome
*Nearly every mount that actually looks cool is exclusive to the cartel market. Crafting has only received a few
*weapons that look way better than armstech will ever get
*dyes most requested are largely tied to cartel market
*finally player housing was added and it is mainly split between flashpoint random drops and cartel market packs

Let's be real though, they will never change this because it would be a huge money loss for them. But they could add more exclusive items to crafting and perks for picking the skill. Such as stat bonuses, special item modification slots, and temp powers like wow eventually got.

They copied wow's new stupid and generic talent tree system so I'm sure the above will happen sooner than later anyway.
WoW did away with profession bonuses (the stated reason was to make crafting optional instead of players feeling forced to level crafting just to get the bonus), as well as removed the profession requirement from most items (there are a few mounts that still require a specific profession to use).

I would like to see them add more vanity and fun items to professions, but I do agree its not likely we'll see much as anything they could add would also be something they could monetize through the CM.

psandak's Avatar


psandak
07.07.2015 , 08:11 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
WoW did away with profession bonuses (the stated reason was to make crafting optional instead of players feeling forced to level crafting just to get the bonus), as well as removed the profession requirement from most items (there are a few mounts that still require a specific profession to use).
Not surprised at all. I keep going back to it because it fits: "when everyone is super, no one will be" more specifically when everyone has the same bonus, the bonus loses its meaning.
The Ortzid Legacy on The Harbinger
Car'beerd (Guardian) Dalkery (Scoundrel) Blairnah (Sage) Daellia (Merc) and 11 other characters
Understanding Crew Skills / High End Schematics / Best Crew Skills / Crew Skill Money Making / Reverse Engineering Rules / SWTOR Story to date

TheWookiee's Avatar


TheWookiee
07.08.2015 , 10:59 AM | #16
I could see them doing away with specific companion crafting bonuses (i.e. _2 Crit Slicing, stc) and moving to a generic +2 Crit to gathering/crafting/etc.

I could also see them moving away from specific crafting as well, or simplifying it to only include Biochem, Artifice and Cybertech, possibly removing the armor and weapon schematics in lieu of class mission rewarded adaptable/modded gear. Wouldn't be that thrilled about this though.

Not sure how a companion-less crafting system would work for gathering. If it is all harvesting nodes, this would bring PvP and PVE RNG into the crafting fold as well. Plus diplomacy and Underworld nodes would need ot be added in game. This would make gather much more difficult unless an RE system on junk loot and looted armor/weapons was added that would deconstruct into multiple material types (to include the blue/purple rare mats.

asbalana's Avatar


asbalana
07.08.2015 , 12:27 PM | #17
I am surprised in that I thought this thread would quickly head into oblivion. Instead there have been thoughtful speculation and a number of posts.

I am not sure where the devs will go, but for my part I am also not sure that I anticipate radical changes that will amount to an essentially new and different crafting system.

The whole thrust of the expansions and renewed EA/BW attention appears to be an attempt to bring the game forward by attracting new players and bringing back old ones and turning both into subs.

Although a different topic and substance for discussion, my feeling is that crafting is an essential part of SWTOR. Items that are crafted are in demand; they sell. If they could not be produced via crafting they would either have to be eliminated from the game or an alternative method would have to be introduced to acquire them. That would require significant revamp far beyond changing crafting itself.

Credits circulate partly via the GTN and crafters fuel the movement. If one could not spend credits on crafted items, there would be little to spend them on. I do not see sales of CM items or mission drops or comm rewards taking up the slack. Perhaps I am wrong and some bright light at EA feels that everything can be provided by CM purchases and that the sale of CM items on the GTN will take up the slack left by crafted items. That might force more sales of CM stuff with greater revenue to EA, but I cannot see most players accepting that approach. Perhaps they feel that most everything produced by crafting could be provided by comms. To me, that would make credits totally valueless. There wuld be no economy in the game. There would be no real reason to run some content such as dallies.

One debate that has gone on for a long time addresses the question of how many people actually craft. Putting the number aside for a moment, any change that diminishes crafting will have a large negative impact on those who do craft. As a personal example, both my wife and I craft and use our income to purchase rare CM goodies on the GTN. If crafting and / or the ability to earn credits through crafting is impacted negatively by the changes, my wife will quit the game. I mostly play because she does, so that would be two subs gone. I don't know how many wiould take the same path, but there would be some. Devs don't make much sense to me, but I will still say that it does not make sense to cause players to leave the game by your efforts to increase the number of players.

In any case, on October 20 I will likely reread this post and shake my head at what a dummy I am.

DataBeaver's Avatar


DataBeaver
07.08.2015 , 01:02 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by psandak View Post
Your PvE and PvP objectives would be just as impacted by RNG as the current system. Specifically the number of other players going after those objectives and how available those objectives are.
At least if the quest area is overpopulated and no objectives are available, I can log out for a few hours and come back later to see if the situation has resolved itself. I also have the option to just camp next to an objective spawn point and be almost certain that I'll get it after a bit of waiting. With the crafting RNG I can never be certain that I'll get the schematic.

psandak's Avatar


psandak
07.08.2015 , 02:00 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by DataBeaver View Post
At least if the quest area is overpopulated and no objectives are available, I can log out for a few hours and come back later to see if the situation has resolved itself.
I'll grant that.

Quote: Originally Posted by DataBeaver View Post
I also have the option to just camp next to an objective spawn point and be almost certain that I'll get it after a bit of waiting.
That's assuming that an objective is guaranteed to drop what you want. Which is not always the case. With this in mind, how long would you camp a spot? an hour? two? a day?

I remember playing EQ1. Halas Meat Pies required a material that only dropped off one type of mob in one zone and only at night (EQ1 has a day/night cycle). There was frequently a line of players waiting on the spawn. Luckily, you only needed one drop to make a lot of meat pies, but you sometimes had to kill half a dozen mobs to get one drop.


Quote: Originally Posted by DataBeaver View Post
With the crafting RNG I can never be certain that I'll get the schematic.
100% certain? no. But in life nothing is 100% certain except that you will die .

Statistically certain? yes. There is 97% certainty that you will get the schematic within 15 tries. And there is 99% certainty you will get the schematic within 20 tries. Granted there are those occasions when reality fails to abide the probabilities, but they are the exception not the rule.

And as I already said, I would rather have an RNG where there are as few "out of my control" variables as possible. With the current crafting RNG, all I have to do is keep on crafting and keep on REing until I get what I want; *I* control all the variables except the RNG. In PvE/PvP objectives there are variables out of personal control.
The Ortzid Legacy on The Harbinger
Car'beerd (Guardian) Dalkery (Scoundrel) Blairnah (Sage) Daellia (Merc) and 11 other characters
Understanding Crew Skills / High End Schematics / Best Crew Skills / Crew Skill Money Making / Reverse Engineering Rules / SWTOR Story to date

Shayddow's Avatar


Shayddow
07.08.2015 , 02:05 PM | #20
As long as they keep having our companions craft rather than characters having to do it themselves. Before I played here I played a text-based <non-graphic> game called Dragonrealms where characters had to craft things themselves - you had to spend time in the forge, or sewing things, or stirring things with a mortar and pestle, with that skill not directly tied to advancement in your level, but only in your chosen crafting skill. And it was a huge time-sink, took time away from time you could otherwise be in combat, advancing your character, etc.
I pretty much like the crafting here much better, although I would like to see more options.
Although there are some problems that I've noticed that I would like to see go away:

If for instance I've maxed a companions affection, and maxed to 500 my ability in a craft, my companion shouldn't bloody well fail to come back with a great result after being sent to scavenge/ craft/ treasurehunt, etc.
Shekkel,70 Nimrossa, 70 |Ebon Hawk
Shassella, 70 Barzella, 70 | Begeran
Adonnah, 70 Kydosh, 70 |Harbinger
Tashha, 70 Svgon, 70