Bioware, please don't keep secrets. We Don't want an NGE

This. A million times this.

This is not SWG. This is not the NGE.

/thread

PS: Nonsense like "bioware defense force" is nothing else but more emotional hyperbole. Emotional hyperbole is the refuge of fools.

I don't have a problem with you speculating about the game and its content, go right ahead. I was referring to you making assumptions about the playerbase with no evidence to back it up.

To answer your question, I wouldn't say you're completely wrong because that's almost impossible to say. I don't know what the majority of the playerbase thinks and neither do you. But to give you my personal opinion based on my own experiences, I certainly don't agree with you. I would consider myself a casual player and I'm much more interested in the story and "solo content" than ops and PVP and what have you. But I don't mind challenge at all and do very much seek it out at times. Beyond just challenge in the solo aspects of the game (various champion level mobs around Ziost are fun to fight solo in my opinion, especially with classes I'm not super familiar with since I'm fairly confident with my main), I have actually played through the group content as well. More than I expected myself to when I started playing this game, especially in the case of ops. Joined a Dread Fortress group on a whim and though that first run was a wipe I eventually got the hang of it and beat it (although out of order as I ended up playing through Dread Palace first and then Dread Fortress again later). I'd say the challenge of getting through Dread Fortress was the only reason I ever tried Dread Palace or the other 55 ops. The challenge was part of what made that fun.

Of course, I'm only one case. That's why you can't make comments about "most players" without it sounding like hyperbole, there are a lot of different players with a lot of different goals and definitions of "fun." Just judging off posts on this forum alone I'd say there are quite a few people who enjoy a challenge but even that's a small sample size. If you think the content is too easy, that's a different conversation entirely and I wouldn't necessarily disagree. I find some of it challenging personally but I also wouldn't claim to be amazing at this game or MMOs in general, so for a more experienced player I could see how something I find challenging wouldn't be. I also see cases where things are definitely easy (a good example is the solo battle with Revan once it was working properly) but I don't mind some things being easy as long as there's challenge to be had somewhere when it's desired.

You say that this isn't a DOOM post, but this sounds like a DOOM post.

We have enough info to see this isn't another NGE (I understand your pain D.

umm we did just pay for a new expansion and now they spring this "new free expansion" on us...

Wow. As I said before, NGE really, really, reeeaaally scarred some people for life.

Oh, and hey, you, Galactic Starfish! You need quit begging for attention. I would guess 89 percent of your posts are nothing more than you pulling crap out of your own crap.

Yeah right, you want to have a serious discussion 59 percent of the time, but when people post counter arguments you get defensive and start with ad hominem and strawman.

Find real numbers, and btw, they are out there, stop the hyperbole, or better yet, quit playing this game and go find that myth you are looking for in an MMO.

Except it's NOT, & here's why: you don't know any more of what you're talking about than anyone else. You're talking as much out of your tailpipe as anyone else. It's just that you've chosen to be worried & stressed, where others are all Bunnies & Happiness.

It would be well if everyone just calm the heck down & wait, like adults, before freekin' out either way. But this being the Interwebby Thingie, that's a wholly unreasonable request

Indeed: when you don't have an argument, slur your opponents as "fanboi shills," that's a winning tactic.

It is questionable if even Bioware has means to produce some completely accurate numbers about how large % of people are alienated from challenge. Usually none of us has luxury of giving some accurate reliable all covering numbers about anything, ever.

Still, I really feel my observations aren't all that misguided. I'd say BW's own approach to void of difficulty in pretty much all post-Hutt Cartel story content supports my assumption: Clearly,based on their own releases and design choises during last..what, 18 months, Bioware fully agrees with me when I claim that people going through the game play around main story do not want any kind of a possibility of a failure or challenge for any reason ever. Doesn't matter if it is Revan or Emperor or whatever that you fight; BW feels it isn't supposed to be a fight that'd require you to do,learn or know anything special about the gameplay at all. There are never any kind of obstacles, no matter ho small, on one's path. Those who wish to face challenge will have to do as you did; to leave the path, go off road in search for something unusual, difficult and fun.

Result is a situation where " climatic" final fight of expansion against is actually less difficult than a typical facebook game. Not even kidding. Process of opening browser, logging to facebook and launching farmville is harder and requires better understanding of video games than gameplay in the climatic final fight.

I'd say almost nobody here is so young that they wouldn't remember the time when " How do I beat the last boss in Y!" was pretty common sight on any RPG forum. When was the last time SW:TOR's main campaign has made it necessary for you to ask this question from yourself?During vanilla..maybe! Here and there. After Makeb? Ever? Even once? " Hmm..How do I do this?" is a luxurious question you sometimes get to ask if you go far enough off road. But you'll never come across it on your path from Makeb ending to end credits of Emperor. If this is a bad thing or not is one question we could debate. But that is other conversation. Much less debatable, I feel, is how this is clear indication Bioware itself feels majority of people do not want actual campaign- gameplay to feature content that'd give a real opportunity to fail at all. Clearly BW also feels that for majority of people, storylines are the meat of their SW:TOR experience. - - > BW feels majority of people do not want the actual meat of their gameplay be a test for them in any way. - > Huge portion of people playing mostly spend their time doing things that keeps them completely alienated and isolated from challenging gameplay. Seriously..replace every spell, attack,heal and buff with a static attack that does every enemy around you damage equal to 10% of your own max HP. Keep all animations as they were. Seriously, no trollin, I says like 50% of people playing this game would not notice anything has changed. It would not change or affect their gameplay or understanding of their class in any meaningful way at all.

It does scare the heck out of me, when it's a President or Congress-critter.

When it's a video game developer? Not so much. Because this is a game. It's not "important" in the grand scheme of things, so quit trying to act like the weight of western civilization is hanging by a thread.

See? I can use hyperbole too, but it doesn't make for an argument worth reading.

About a week or so ago, when I was trying to figure out how to be Darth Thanaton on Voss to continue my class quest. Tried it three times, couldn't deal with the adds that kept jumping, so I popped back out to do other things & come back later.

So, yea. The game's totally ez enough a toddler can faceroll their way through Revan, amirite? But actual players still get defeated playing the actual game.

That's what's called "hyperbole" & it kills your argument, because you have no evidence whatsoever to back it up & are operating instead on rhetorical fumes. Are you sure you're not Conundrum in disguise?

I'm on the last quest on Makeb, so I don't know. But I got killed trying to get into the Hutt Facility; an elite & 2 regulars was a bit more than I could handle. However, I'm moving on to Rishii anyway, so maybe I'll more agree with you (or, maybe less) then. We'll see. I can't comment, because I don't know ... & frankly, neither do you.

Of course, you could come back & tell me I just don't know to play while implying you're the MMO Master or something, but that impress me at all, so please don't waste your time or mine.

Sorry, that's not merely straight-up hyperbolic trolling, your entire argument is an indirect insult to a lot of people you don't even know. That is exactly the kind of attitude that turns people away from "hardcore MMO players" in the first place. Counter-productivity, HO!!!!!

Yeah, as I said you'd sometimes come across this during Vanilla. I thought it abundantly clear I'm mostly talking about post-vanilla (or post Makeb, to be more precise) design choices of Bioware. Not like Vanilla or Makeb are - difficult - as such.. but they aren't ridiculous either. Change, danger to mess up is still here. Sometimes.

It is a thing of beauty how hard it seems to argue about anything on this forum without running to whichever FOTM pile of internet debate catch phrase accusations. Hyperbole this, " well, that's like your narrative man" that. Argue people, don't devote half of your post in trying to dismiss their argument with lame all purpose umbrella terms.

Also, I'm miles away from " hard core MMO player" I have absolutely no clue about my class mechanics, optimal gear or such. I don't raid and pre-raid content requires you to learn none of this.