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Force Push/Pull for Juggernaut + Some Inquistor ideas

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Force Push/Pull for Juggernaut + Some Inquistor ideas

Canoftuna's Avatar


Canoftuna
12.24.2011 , 10:13 PM | #1
I was originally going to put this in the Juggernaut section, but I kind of touch on Inquisitors as well, so I put it here.

Now don't get me wrong, Force Push is pretty cool. However it doesn't really suit the Juggernaut from a gameplay perspective. Pushing someone away is really the opposite of what we want as a tank. Why not switch it with Force Pull?

Powertechs get Grapple, Assassins get Force Pull, Juggernauts could really use Force Pull as well. While I'm on the subject, why not give Force Push to Sorcerers instead, because it suits them a lot better than Juggernauts being ranged, as well as possibly making Overload Sorcerer only? I'm sure Assassins don't need to shove things away when they want to be in melee anyway. Maybe even give Assassins Force Charge to compensate losing Overload?

The end result is all 3 tanks have a charge and a pull, Assassins not having a knockback (why does melee want to push targets away?), and Sorcerers having exclusive rights to an AoE knockback and a single target knockback (maybe increase the cooldown on Overload slightly?). This can all go doubly for the Light side equivalents (excuse me if I don't know the names offhand).

Thoughts/comments/trolls/flames?

Bang-A-Rang's Avatar


Bang-A-Rang
12.25.2011 , 02:40 AM | #2
As a Tank assassin I actually like Overload because it can help me push mobs together sometimes. Obviously it isn't something that I would use all the time, but helpful. For Juggs getting force push I think that had a lot to do with Charge, you can charge into a fight, hit them for a bit, force push them and re charge again, as a tank you can have a 2s stun off your charge and the combination of Force Push (knockdown) Force Charge (stun) is some solid mitigation. Obviously this won't work on boss mobs, but for the tougher elites it could be helpful in emergency moments. This also isn't just a PvE game, Force Push is VERY nice in PvP for getting people away from nodes, or pushing Huttball carries off the planks.

Canoftuna's Avatar


Canoftuna
12.25.2011 , 02:57 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Bang-A-Rang View Post
As a Tank assassin I actually like Overload because it can help me push mobs together sometimes. Obviously it isn't something that I would use all the time, but helpful. For Juggs getting force push I think that had a lot to do with Charge, you can charge into a fight, hit them for a bit, force push them and re charge again, as a tank you can have a 2s stun off your charge and the combination of Force Push (knockdown) Force Charge (stun) is some solid mitigation. Obviously this won't work on boss mobs, but for the tougher elites it could be helpful in emergency moments. This also isn't just a PvE game, Force Push is VERY nice in PvP for getting people away from nodes, or pushing Huttball carries off the planks.
Pushing and charging again sounds great on paper, but given it doesn't work with bosses (which would be a great situation for it), you'd be using it in a trash pull. In a trash pull with multiple ranged attackers and some melee, you'd just make it more difficult on yourself pushing anything away and charging it. Whereas pulling in a ranged unit is far more useful than pushing away anything. You have cooldowns for emergency moments. Juggernaut aoe threat is hard as it is when you have to deal with ranged targets spread out (like when an Assassin feels the need to run in and blast them all away)

I won't comment further about Assassin use of Overload, as I have zero experience with it myself. It was merely a trade for a Charge, which they probably don't need seeing as how they have stealth. I only know that being on the tank end of an Overload is really annoying.

I realise it isn't just a PvE game, but I can use the same example for Pull. Why Push a carrier away from a node when you can just Pull them from it at a distance? The benefits of Pull would outweigh the ability to Push people off things, in my opinion.

I still feel Pull will have much greater use as a Juggernaut than Push.

Bang-A-Rang's Avatar


Bang-A-Rang
12.25.2011 , 04:26 AM | #4
I don't disagree that Pull is better than Push for a tank, I was just pointing out that it had some applications.

Mobs are already so spread out anyways, Force Pull isn't really that helpful. I can yank one mob in, but there are 4 more that are blasting away so I have to run around like a rabbit and smack em all. I wish, instead of Force Pull that one point would turn Overload into a PBAoE pull, suck them in instead of pushing them away.

Canoftuna's Avatar


Canoftuna
12.25.2011 , 04:46 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Bang-A-Rang View Post
I don't disagree that Pull is better than Push for a tank, I was just pointing out that it had some applications.

Mobs are already so spread out anyways, Force Pull isn't really that helpful. I can yank one mob in, but there are 4 more that are blasting away so I have to run around like a rabbit and smack em all. I wish, instead of Force Pull that one point would turn Overload into a PBAoE pull, suck them in instead of pushing them away.
AoE situations are really hypothetical anyway. I've been in some situations where I can jump into a group of 3-4 as a Bounty Hunter and have 1-2 strong ranked enemies blasting away, and being able to grapple one back and ranged the last down.

In that situation a Juggernaut could pull one in, and then keep threat over healers with some minor ranged detail (throwing the lightsaber and force choke for instance).

It's hard to deny that Pull would likely be better than Push. The point of a melee/tank is to keep targets near you, which is the opposite of what Push does.

Mediv's Avatar


Mediv
12.26.2011 , 04:46 AM | #6
For PvE tanking i would say that pull would be nice to get that one ranged mob that is just not in range for AoE attack. However in PvP i wouldn't trade push for pull. Pushing someone from a ledge or into a fire/acid pool is a) clever b) extremely fun.

EDIT:

Sadly push is a bit bugged now - it launches with a bit of a lag, so sometimes its hard to predict where the guy would land.
Jarre - 50 Jedi Guardian [Tomb of Freedon Nadd]

MrSteak's Avatar


MrSteak
12.26.2011 , 08:41 AM | #7
Juggs don't get Pull because they get Leap/Charge. You have a way of closing distance already, you don't get to steal mine.

anedorivan's Avatar


anedorivan
12.26.2011 , 07:40 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by MrSteak View Post
Juggs don't get Pull because they get Leap/Charge. You have a way of closing distance already, you don't get to steal mine.
Care to explain why the Vanguard/Powertech gets both then? I say give us pull and make it share a cooldown with push.
Quote: Originally Posted by TheBBP View Post
Anedorivan is an honorary member of Havoc Squad. The man can easily take what he dishes out.
"The only ones who should kill, are those prepared to be killed" Lelouch Vi Brittania.

Canoftuna's Avatar


Canoftuna
12.27.2011 , 01:39 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by MrSteak View Post
Juggs don't get Pull because they get Leap/Charge. You have a way of closing distance already, you don't get to steal mine.
Steal yours? What are you, 5 years old and you don't want to share a toy? I even suggested giving Assassins a charge. Should I have not said that because "NO IT'S MINE YOU CAN'T HAVE IT?"

I don't see any logical reason for a melee class, one that also tanks, to have Push instead of Pull. Like the user above me said, Powertechs get both a charge and a pull, so your argument is invalid.

In the the sake of tanking fairness, all 3 classes having a charge and a pull like the Powertech isn't too much to ask.

Gymnotiformes's Avatar


Gymnotiformes
12.27.2011 , 02:05 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Canoftuna View Post
I was originally going to put this in the Juggernaut section, but I kind of touch on Inquisitors as well, so I put it here.

Now don't get me wrong, Force Push is pretty cool. However it doesn't really suit the Juggernaut from a gameplay perspective. Pushing someone away is really the opposite of what we want as a tank. Why not switch it with Force Pull?

Powertechs get Grapple, Assassins get Force Pull, Juggernauts could really use Force Pull as well. While I'm on the subject, why not give Force Push to Sorcerers instead, because it suits them a lot better than Juggernauts being ranged, as well as possibly making Overload Sorcerer only? I'm sure Assassins don't need to shove things away when they want to be in melee anyway. Maybe even give Assassins Force Charge to compensate losing Overload?

The end result is all 3 tanks have a charge and a pull, Assassins not having a knockback (why does melee want to push targets away?), and Sorcerers having exclusive rights to an AoE knockback and a single target knockback (maybe increase the cooldown on Overload slightly?). This can all go doubly for the Light side equivalents (excuse me if I don't know the names offhand).

Thoughts/comments/trolls/flames?
As an assassin tank I use overload to knock enemies away from ranged characters if they draw aggro and pull is on cooldown.