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Questions about Juggs/Guardians in PVP (tanking and dps)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Questions about Juggs/Guardians in PVP (tanking and dps)

GrandLordMenace's Avatar


GrandLordMenace
04.20.2015 , 12:19 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by adproduction View Post
Yeah, I do, but as I said If we were on the same team, you'd have a great damage pool because I play to win, not death match.



I don't care what they want to believe, they are going to believe it anyway. I'm 33 years old, I stop looking for other people's approval along time ago. I didn't come here looking for your approval, I came here to correct some misinformation you are laying out about dps tanks. You say you tried it right, but then you would know what numbers we can produce.

Also, I'm not the only dps tank here who does a truck load of damage. (If you read previous topic) If you want to believe you are one of kind go ahead, but like I said, I know what numbers I produce. However, since you don't play my character (or pay for my sub) or play my server, don't tell me what I produce.
lulz, the self entitlement and delusions of grandeur are strong with this one. Let me know when you write a guide, outparse me, and outdps me (let alone dalfurend) in PVP. Also, PTS is up, where's that duel m8? :P
Rydarus Veneris the Revanchist, Beater #fedaracarrychist
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Dalfurend's Avatar


Dalfurend
04.20.2015 , 01:09 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by adproduction View Post
Yeah, I do, but as I said If we were on the same team, you'd have a great damage pool because I play to win, not death match.
Lol. The reason I go yolo and go to the other teams node is because I demoralize them to the extent that they just want to sit around and turtle their node When the games are more balanced and we are actually fighting for a node then I'm pretty sure the fact that I get things dead plays a key role in my team winning.

Yes, we need people to watch nodes, and their damage is not going be be high - fair enough. But if you are not that person and try to convince me or anyone else that damage doesn't matter then you are fooling yourself.

Also, I am not telling you what you produce... I'm telling you what you don't produce!

I can see an argument that it's fun to play, that's fine, but now you are saying it's on the same level as vengeance?

Bruh, BRuh, BRUh, BRUH!

No.
Zetsuma
<Lethal Dose Fifty>
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GrandLordMenace's Avatar


GrandLordMenace
04.20.2015 , 01:20 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by Dalfurend View Post
Lol. The reason I go yolo and go to the other teams node is because I demoralize them to the extent that they just want to sit around and turtle their node When the games are more balanced and we are actually fighting for a node then I'm pretty sure the fact that I get things dead plays a key role in my team winning.

Yes, we need people to watch nodes, and their damage is not going be be high - fair enough. But if you are not that person and try to convince me or anyone else that damage doesn't matter then you are fooling yourself.

Also, I am not telling you what you produce... I'm telling you what you don't produce!

I can see an argument that it's fun to play, that's fine, but now you are saying it's on the same level as vengeance?

Bruh, BRuh, BRUh, BRUH!

No.
Also, Guardian Slash's AOE is very difficult to get more than 2 players in it, the ability hits in a 360 degrees around the TARGET, not you, so you can't hit people behind you generally, only people close to your target. Very rarely do players stack like this.
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Last Guardian DPS because dead game

adproduction's Avatar


adproduction
04.20.2015 , 01:48 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by Dalfurend View Post
Lol. The reason I go yolo and go to the other teams node is because I demoralize them to the extent that they just want to sit around and turtle their node When the games are more balanced and we are actually fighting for a node then I'm pretty sure the fact that I get things dead plays a key role in my team winning.
I'm going to answer this when I say you're not the only one who can do psychological warfare. Pylon game yesterday, I drove the other team out of the doorway by running up the middle because they so use to us stay back and returning fire. Same thing in a turret game, I have tendency to do what you do and jump in the middle of stuff, which freaks my opponents out. We still lost that game, but multiple time I made the enemy retreat. Lastly, in another pylon game, I was so notorious that when I step on the field, everyone would drop everything to focus fire on me because I would either try to take the pylon or I kept getting the "unbeatable title." I can name various times where I had the team literally retreat by doing something unorthodox. I don't turtle even if we are losing a game, I go to fight and cap. (or touchdown)

Psychological warfare wins more games than damage, killing, healing, or protection. When people get scared they do stupid ****. I learn this in WOW.

Quote:
Yes, we need people to watch nodes, and their damage is not going be be high - fair enough. But if you are not that person and try to convince me or anyone else that damage doesn't matter then you are fooling yourself.
God, I wish you had played in the early days of WoW in Warsong and Atrlec Valley. You realize that damage and kills meant nothing in the long run when it comes to psychological warfare.

Quote:
Also, I am not telling you what you produce... I'm telling you what you don't produce!
It's the same thing, bruh. LOL! My guess is your trying to say we are not same in how we produce our results.

Quote:
I can see an argument that it's fun to play, that's fine, but now you are saying it's on the same level as vengeance?
No I am saying dps tank may not be equal in dps as Focus/Rage or Vengeance/Vigilance, it is far from sucking. I am not all comparing my build with yours as my build has to try harder to even do the damage you do. That speaks volumes about a vigilance/vengeance and a defense/immortal that tries to dps.

GrandLordMenace's Avatar


GrandLordMenace
04.20.2015 , 01:58 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by adproduction View Post
I'm going to answer this when I say you're not the only one who can do psychological warfare. Pylon game yesterday, I drove the other team out of the doorway by running up the middle because they so use to us stay back and returning fire. Same thing in a turret game, I have tendency to do what you do and jump in the middle of stuff, which freaks my opponents out. We still lost that game, but multiple time I made the enemy retreat. Lastly, in another pylon game, I was so notorious that when I step on the field, everyone would drop everything to focus fire on me because I would either try to take the pylon or I kept getting the "unbeatable title." I can name various times where I had the team literally retreat by doing something unorthodox. I don't turtle even if we are losing a game, I go to fight and cap. (or touchdown)

Psychological warfare wins more games than damage, killing, healing, or protection. When people get scared they do stupid ****. I learn this in WOW.



God, I wish you had played in the early days of WoW in Warsong and Atrlec Valley. You realize that damage and kills meant nothing in the long run.



It's the same thing, bruh. LOL! My guess is your trying to say we are not same in how we produce our results.
Psychological warfare is all well and good, but damage is what scares people. Pure DPS instills fear into the hearts of healers. Damage is power. Damage is what fuels people to send 3 to defend the node from one lowly you, because they know what you can do to them.
Rydarus Veneris the Revanchist, Beater #fedaracarrychist
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Last Guardian DPS because dead game

Icykill_'s Avatar


Icykill_
04.20.2015 , 06:36 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
Except I don't think it's working for you either, you just have really low standards as to what defines "working." Ex. 8-9k crits are extremely low, especially for a DPS. Also what DPS numbers do you define as "good"

Also you have to realize if everyone is using similar builds and gearing, there is a very good reason as to why they are doing so. Its one thing to "think outside the box" when it comes to strategy or whatnot, but it's a whole different thing to say that about gearing where you can mathematically proof backed with practical arguments what the best stat targets are.

Saying "well everyone else does it therefore it better to do it another way" is NOT a valid argument.

No there is no hardcap but there is this thing called a DR curve. If you ever took basic algebra you know it as an asymptote. The more crit rating you have the less benefit you get from the next point of crit.

Additionally even ignoring the DR curve there are more reasons why crit stacking is bad. Specifically the higher your crit chance is, the less beneficial additional crit is. For example if you have 20% crit adding on a additional 1% crit is worth far more than if you where at 30% crit and added on 1%.
Just interested in what your perfect stats are for each class/build... Like some people said its about personal preference... But you are correct in saying that too much off something is never a good thing
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adproduction's Avatar


adproduction
04.20.2015 , 06:53 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by Icykill_ View Post
Just interested in what your perfect stats are for each class/build... Like some people said its about personal preference... But you are correct in saying that too much off something is never a good thing
I know you aren't on my side, but he doesn't he just picking a fight and trying to disrespect. Like I said the me and Zet's the same numbers so if 9k is low so I guess Zet's is below the requirement? Can't sit and diss people dps without insulting everyone's dps. That would be a bold claim, but seeing how arrogant a lot these posters are, it doesn't shock me the least bit.

Icykill_'s Avatar


Icykill_
04.20.2015 , 09:47 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by adproduction View Post
I know you aren't on my side, but he doesn't he just picking a fight and trying to disrespect. Like I said the me and Zet's the same numbers so if 9k is low so I guess Zet's is below the requirement? Can't sit and diss people dps without insulting everyone's dps. That would be a bold claim, but seeing how arrogant a lot these posters are, it doesn't shock me the least bit.
I'm not on anyone's "side"... I try to min max based on facts/results from testing... Usually backed by mathematics or experience... Of course that also comes down to play style and what your desired goal is
ie you may want to be harder to kill and don't mind sacrificing a little dps... Or you may prefer the higher dps
I was asking what he thought were the best stats vs performance... Everyone has a different way to setup
Personally I continue to test and tweak most of my classes until I am happy... So I am always open to suggestions based on someone else's experience... It saves me time and credits if someone has already tried something that doesn't work... But if they are having good results with a setup, I will often test it to see which is better
Once I find an optimal setup for my desired results, I try to pass on that knowledge like I did with my gearing for 2018 Expertise thread you can see in my signature
RIP APAC Players 😢😢😢😢💦
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adproduction's Avatar


adproduction
04.20.2015 , 10:06 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by Icykill_ View Post
I'm not on anyone's "side"... I try to min max based on facts/results from testing... Usually backed by mathematics or experience... Of course that also comes down to play style and what your desired goal is
ie you may want to be harder to kill and don't mind sacrificing a little dps... Or you may prefer the higher dps
I was asking what he thought were the best stats vs performance... Everyone has a different way to setup
Personally I continue to test and tweak most of my classes until I am happy... So I am always open to suggestions based on someone else's experience... It saves me time and credits if someone has already tried something that doesn't work... But if they are having good results with a setup, I will often test it to see which is better
Once I find an optimal setup for my desired results, I try to pass on that knowledge like I did with my gearing for 2018 Expertise thread you can see in my signature
Actually I may try the defensive dps tank you were trying to tell me about, but with shield/absorb with no defense attribute. That idea you suggested has been dancing in my head since you noted it.

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
04.21.2015 , 11:25 AM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by Icykill_ View Post
Just interested in what your perfect stats are for each class/build... Like some people said its about personal preference... But you are correct in saying that too much off something is never a good thing
Pretty much all PvP DPS classes will want around 75% surge as standard, although you might see some variances with higher alacrity for some specs, notably dotspecs.

I typically run power builds and have low crit although I can see arguments for higher crit builds for some specs. For all warrior DPS specs I would run a all power build simply because of the fact that all warrior DPS specs have a built in Autocrit in addition to the 6pc setbonus, which means that crit is heavily devalued in PvP for the specs.

I wouldn't touch alacrity at all for a Juggernaut DPS, however they have enough white damage that it might be a good idea to invest in a accuracy enhancement maybe two.
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.