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Did Disney indirectly make SWTOR cannon? CLONE WARS/DARTH BANE TRILIOGY SPOILERS

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Did Disney indirectly make SWTOR cannon? CLONE WARS/DARTH BANE TRILIOGY SPOILERS

millionfall's Avatar


millionfall
08.22.2015 , 02:19 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
I never knew he was a part of Banes story at all to begin with.

Revan might have been mentioned in passing as an example of ancient Sith who inspired him, but he is hardly important in the grand scheme of things and like others mentioned, Bane was around long before Revan.

And yes, cascading cannon is a slippery slope and completely ridiculous. I assure you I can take everything that happens in SWTOR and link it (with your tenuous logic) to almost the entire Legends continuity at some point.

So if Kotor is cannon, then the Mandalorian wars are cannon, then the KOTOR Comics are cannon, so then Celeste Morne is Cannon, so then the Legacy Comics are cannon, so then the Fel Empire and Galactic Alliance are cannon, so the Legacy and FotJ novels are all cannon, so then the NJO and Vong are cannon, etc...

Yeah it doesn't work like that.
He was far more than mentioned in passing. Did you forget the hole Rakata Prime journey and the whole reason he went there? It case you completely forgot what was stated and what he found there it was a holocron that gave Bane his whole out look of the Sith and the technique he used to destroy them. It included instructions on how to use the Force power known as the thought bomb, and the lessons from the Holocron focused on the user coveting the dark side and the importance of a Sith Master training one apprentice at a time. Seems to me like he was a lot more then just a side name tossed around.

Do bare in mind that Disney has been given the rains and they could say I don't give a damn if we tossed it out initially it would line perfect for what is going forward and we can solidify that Revan was a big source of Bane's outlook and how he destroyed the old Sith. I also believe that the new villain looks alike more like Revan with his outfit and the mask over the hood. Also if you look at how some Mandalorian helmets are you'll notice that the he uses looks astoundingly like it and Revan's mask was from a Mandolorian's helmet.

I personally kind of hope they leave it alone aside from mentions or some implementations like how to make a holocron or such.

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
08.22.2015 , 08:11 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by millionfall View Post
He was far more than mentioned in passing. Did you forget the hole Rakata Prime journey and the whole reason he went there? It case you completely forgot what was stated and what he found there it was a holocron that gave Bane his whole out look of the Sith and the technique he used to destroy them. It included instructions on how to use the Force power known as the thought bomb, and the lessons from the Holocron focused on the user coveting the dark side and the importance of a Sith Master training one apprentice at a time. Seems to me like he was a lot more then just a side name tossed around.

Do bare in mind that Disney has been given the rains and they could say I don't give a damn if we tossed it out initially it would line perfect for what is going forward and we can solidify that Revan was a big source of Bane's outlook and how he destroyed the old Sith. I also believe that the new villain looks alike more like Revan with his outfit and the mask over the hood. Also if you look at how some Mandalorian helmets are you'll notice that the he uses looks astoundingly like it and Revan's mask was from a Mandolorian's helmet.

I personally kind of hope they leave it alone aside from mentions or some implementations like how to make a holocron or such.
You're being way too hopeful because Disney doesn't care about that. Right now the only thing that is canon is that there was a bane and he created the rule of two. Revan giving him inspiration, his journey to rakata prime, heck even having an apprentice named Darth Zannah is no longer canon at the moment. Not even the thought bomb. Also it's been confirmed that Kylo Ren's outfit is supposed to be inspired by Vader and it has nothing to do with Revan.

Disney is distancing itself from much of the old canon, even the old republic era, and if it was going to leave in the whole Revan thing and keep the foundations of the old why not canonize SWTOR as well? They don't want to. They stated SWTOR is NOT Canon in their minds.

Fyurii's Avatar


Fyurii
08.23.2015 , 08:28 AM | #13
Before cancellation, I recall The Clone Wars already made reference to the Great Galactic War that ended with the Treaty of Coruscant and the state of the Cold War this game begins with.
Can't remember the episode, (or exact wording unfortunately) but Plo Koon makes a comment during a battle (he's piloting his starfighter in a space battle) that the galaxy hasn't seen fighting like this since the Great Galactic War.

Quote: Originally Posted by millionfall View Post
He was far more than mentioned in passing. Did you forget the hole Rakata Prime journey and the whole reason he went there?
The whole reason Bane went there is the same reason Revan was even connected to Bane and his creation of the Rule of Two. Drew Karpyshyn.

Drew decided that Revan was more important to the entire Sith mytthos/lore than anyone else, and undermined the wisdom of Bane's own recognition of the historical fatal flaws of the Sith, leading him to the realisation that many Sith increases the likelihood of the Sith being destroyed from within.

Instead, Karpyshyn has Bane learn such wisdom from a holocron made by Revan when he was still Darth Revan, which also shows that Revan was more of an arrogant idiot than first thought after KoTOR2.
Darth Revan was aware that multiple Sith/Dark Siders would lead to inevitable betrayal and infighting, and he chose to allow it to continue to happen.

In one fell swoop, Karpyshyn undermined both Bane and his "baby" Revan.
________║≤o≥║___________
/_______TROOPER___≡≡≡≡≡≡≡╡
\_/‾‾‾‾ // ╝‾‾╚▄▄▄▄▄/‾‾‾‾‾

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
08.23.2015 , 08:45 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Fyurii View Post
Before cancellation, I recall The Clone Wars already made reference to the Great Galactic War that ended with the Treaty of Coruscant and the state of the Cold War this game begins with.
Can't remember the episode, (or exact wording unfortunately) but Plo Koon makes a comment during a battle (he's piloting his starfighter in a space battle) that the galaxy hasn't seen fighting like this since the Great Galactic War.



The whole reason Bane went there is the same reason Revan was even connected to Bane and his creation of the Rule of Two. Drew Karpyshyn.

Drew decided that Revan was more important to the entire Sith mytthos/lore than anyone else, and undermined the wisdom of Bane's own recognition of the historical fatal flaws of the Sith, leading him to the realisation that many Sith increases the likelihood of the Sith being destroyed from within.

Instead, Karpyshyn has Bane learn such wisdom from a holocron made by Revan when he was still Darth Revan, which also shows that Revan was more of an arrogant idiot than first thought after KoTOR2.
Darth Revan was aware that multiple Sith/Dark Siders would lead to inevitable betrayal and infighting, and he chose to allow it to continue to happen.

In one fell swoop, Karpyshyn undermined both Bane and his "baby" Revan.
I will actually defend this. As much as I argue against Revan and Bane fandom it kind of makes sense. We know Revan became Darth Revan due to him and Malak running into the Emperor who essentially mind screwed them and used them to weaken the republic. We also know there was a part of Revan that constantly tried to undermine this since he was essentially doing everything against his will. It's very possible part of him was very aware of the sith infighting but did nothing to prevent it as a way of self sabotage.

Not to mention even if he didn't train so many apprentices how could he fulfill his mission and stop the republic? It also wouldn't change the fact that there's a galactic army that intended to cross over into republic space to wage a massive war with an emperor that far outmatched him. If he did have some plans on overthrowing the Emperor he might have needed to use the very means he spoke of. Multiple weaker sith to gang up on the bigger stronger sith. Namely the Emperor himself who he wasn't a match for.

Fyurii's Avatar


Fyurii
08.23.2015 , 11:13 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Rhyltran View Post
We also know there was a part of Revan that constantly tried to undermine this since he was essentially doing everything against his will. It's very possible part of him was very aware of the sith infighting but did nothing to prevent it as a way of self sabotage.
That only works as a defense now, and tenuously at best in regards to his time as Darth Revan.
What does show that he could have been working contrary to the Emperor's will though, was information from Kreia and Mical in KoTOR2, that Revan's strategies against the Republic showed more interest in taking the Republic's economic and military infrastructure as intact as possible.
The danger posed by multiple Sith and infighting would only increase the chances of both unsuccessfully building a force to challenge the Sith Emperor, and ensuring the likelihood of being killed by one of his own underlings.

Quote:
Not to mention even if he didn't train so many apprentices how could he fulfill his mission and stop the republic? If he did have some plans on overthrowing the Emperor he might have needed to use the very means he spoke of. Multiple weaker sith to gang up on the bigger stronger sith. Namely the Emperor himself who he wasn't a match for.
That's the point.
Revan's expressed awareness of the inherent flaws and dangers of many Sith to themselves, retroactively made his actions of training more Sith/Dark Siders within the known galaxy idiotic, with the exception of assassins trained to hunt & kill Jedi (including HK-47).

He still would have been exposing himself to the same dangers with so many other Sith being trained, and he already showed his "weakness" in regards to not killing a potential usurper when he let Malak live and only cut off his jaw instead of his head. That "weakness" lead to his plans as Darth Revan being completely derailed.

Many "weaker" Sith would be as much of a threat to him as they could be to the Emperor (more so since we know how much more powerful Vitiate was than Revan), in regards to having to watch his back against so many potential threats.
None of them showed the same forethought of the likes of Marr or Revan himself in regards to a "Big Picture".

Quote:
It also wouldn't change the fact that there's a galactic army that intended to cross over into republic space to wage a massive war with an emperor that far outmatched him.
No, it definitely wouldn't change that fact.
That fact (even when it was a different "True Sith" at the time of KoTOR2) only showed Revan as more of an arrogant idiot that wasn't interested in saving the Republic or its people from the Sith, since he never warned the Jedi or the Republic of the existence of a surviving Sith Empire in the Unknown Regions.
The damage done by the generations of infiltration by Sith agents, especially the Children of The Emperor could have been heavily limited, if not averted entirely, if Revan hadn't been so determined to be the one to defeat the Sith.
________║≤o≥║___________
/_______TROOPER___≡≡≡≡≡≡≡╡
\_/‾‾‾‾ // ╝‾‾╚▄▄▄▄▄/‾‾‾‾‾

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
08.27.2015 , 09:48 PM | #16
The Darth Bane character existed longer before Revan did. Revan was only retroactively added to Bane's backstory in later retconed versions of his story. There is no reason to think Revan would be canon just because Bane is.

Trinid's Avatar


Trinid
08.27.2015 , 11:39 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Suromir View Post
and hint for the derps..SWTOR isn't and never has been "canon"
Didn't the Lucasarts Story Group consult on the script for KotFE? Why would they do that for something that isn't canon?

DarknessInLight's Avatar


DarknessInLight
08.28.2015 , 12:23 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Trinid View Post
Didn't the Lucasarts Story Group consult on the script for KotFE? Why would they do that for something that isn't canon?
Actually, the LucasFILM Story Group consulted on the script for KotFE. Disney has taken a sudden interest in SWTOR in the past 6 months. There are going to be tie-ins between this game and The Force Awakens when it hits theaters in December. At that point, I believe this game(and its story) becomes canonized. I predict a large swell of new players to this game once the movie comes out because of the connections that we will see.

Spoiler
Jedi do not fight for Peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading, as slogans always are. Jedi fight for Civilization, because only Civilization creates Peace. - Jedi Master Mace Windu

JediRelentless's Avatar


JediRelentless
08.29.2015 , 05:39 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by DarknessInLight View Post
Actually, the LucasFILM Story Group consulted on the script for KotFE. Disney has taken a sudden interest in SWTOR in the past 6 months. There are going to be tie-ins between this game and The Force Awakens when it hits theaters in December. At that point, I believe this game(and its story) becomes canonized. I predict a large swell of new players to this game once the movie comes out because of the connections that we will see.

Spoiler
There is no direct connection between this game and the upcoming movies.

DarknessInLight's Avatar


DarknessInLight
08.31.2015 , 12:50 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by JediRelentless View Post
There is no direct connection between this game and the upcoming movies.
No? Then why would Disney show sudden interest in an expansion for a game that, for all intents and purposes, is non canon? A game, that Disney said, it would not be interfering with, as they praised the team at Bioware for the work they have done.....

Non canon material would not matter to what is considered canon, would it?
Jedi do not fight for Peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading, as slogans always are. Jedi fight for Civilization, because only Civilization creates Peace. - Jedi Master Mace Windu