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Island_Jedi's field manual to operations


yucu's Avatar


yucu
03.11.2015 , 04:51 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Island_Jedi View Post
yes I copy and pasted this from the original guide I made. Forgot to update the healing section.
Ok that makes more sense now, was wondering what was going on.

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Island_Jedi
03.11.2015 , 05:29 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by -OBITUS View Post
Unless taunts have changed since pre 3.0, the information provided is false. I would recommend reading Dulfy's tidbits on it from her website or below
what is false?

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-OBITUS
03.11.2015 , 05:32 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Island_Jedi View Post
what is false?
Read the spoiler under the original post.
I could be wrong--and sorry if I am--but taunts are percent based. Everyone has a meter--per say--of their threat on any certain target. Thus, every single target taunt brings the tank's threat meter to 10% higher than the previously highest threat, and forces the target to attack the tank for six seconds. The aoe taunt, then, would affect all targets within the scope of the taunt similarly: the tank gains 10% of the highest threat and aggro for six seconds until he has to rely on his/her own threat generation.

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Island_Jedi
03.11.2015 , 05:45 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by -OBITUS View Post
Read the spoiler under the original post.
I could be wrong--and sorry if I am--but taunts are percent based. Everyone has a meter--per say--of their threat on any certain target. Thus, every single target taunt brings the tank's threat meter to 10% higher than the previously highest threat, and forces the target to attack the tank for six seconds. The aoe taunt, then, would affect all targets within the scope of the taunt similarly: the tank gains 10% of the highest threat and aggro for six seconds until he has to rely on his/her own threat generation.
how is that different from what I said? dulfy does not mention the 30 percent boost from range so.... 10 percent is melee range. Better check your **** before you say something is false. dulfy does not make mention of the 30 percent boost that dont mean it aint there.

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JouerTue
03.11.2015 , 05:55 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Dark_Mithrandir View Post
People will do that work for me, some already doing.
Ok i do another quite easy:

The guide says healers are more clicker friendly? good joke
Healers are very clicker unfriendly imo.
By clicking people in the ops frame i do not call people a "clicker".....

If i've to say what's the best class for a clicker that is definetly a rDps class.

Scoundrels are the worst single target healers atm... just saying
healers click ops frame, and not themselves and not the tank.
the others are doing it wrong
The Red Eclipse
Republic: anstacav, giranda, hobogo, vitulal, wasiq, zadoro, onovidi
Empire: astutillo, comel'am, covamo, heksebo, qarrarr, dadietr
The Harbringer- Republic: hobogo; Empire: qarrarr

-OBITUS's Avatar


-OBITUS
03.11.2015 , 06:01 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Island_Jedi View Post
how is that different from what I said? dulfy does not mention the 30 percent boost from range so.... 10 percent is melee range. Better check your **** before you say something is false. dulfy does not make mention of the 30 percent boost that dont mean it aint there.
Your complete lack of english
But do not fret! I will type a sincere reply without the need for shorthand!

To begin, it is very different from what you said. While theoretically, probability and percentage are the same, you assume that you can convert the denominator of both to 1 (or 100 for percentages), or a multiple of each. In an earlier post, 1.3 does not equal a 30% boost. It is equal to a 130% boost which is false. 30% boost in the land of probability would read 0.3 or .3 if you dislike zeros.
Second, I found your elimination of variables amusing to determine whether melee or ranged was the 10% boost. It is possible that threat does indeed have "melee/ranged variables" but I'll have to take a look at it later this weekend. Until than, I will attempt to refrain from posting about the idea.
Lastly, assuming you are correct on these ranged/melee variables, your taunt post (original) is still wrong.

Quote:
The second is taunting, taunting builds threat on a percentage basis and gets exponentially more powerful, the more cumulative threat has been built against your current target. You should very rarely open with a taunt or AOE taunt, most pulls require damaging abilities to tank effectively. Taunts don't build cumulative threat, they buff existing threat by a percentage. They will usually put you above the highest threat holder by 30 percent, including yourself. The thing is 30 percent of 0 threat is still 0, so if know threat is not on the table you better have a good reason to taunt, because your not generating any threat this way.
If, as you say, melee is 10% boost, than tanks would not be put ahead by a 30% boost. Generally speaking, tanks are always in melee range of the boss (excluding the newer operations and a few old ones). This would mean the boost is 10%. Also, your last few sentences are true but if they open with a taunt, than they still had the first move and thus the highest threat for the specific GCD. Of course, they will lose threat because of it soon but it was unclear so I'm making it more specific.

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Island_Jedi
03.11.2015 , 06:12 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by -OBITUS View Post
Your complete lack of english
If, as you say, melee is 10% boost, than tanks would not be put ahead by a 30% boost. Generally speaking, tanks are always in melee range of the boss (excluding the newer operations and a few old ones). This would mean the boost is 10%. Also, your last few sentences are true but if they open with a taunt, than they still had the first move and thus the highest threat for the specific GCD. Of course, they will lose threat because of it soon but it was unclear so I'm making it more specific.
You dear sir its your complete lack of knowledge of the game. So dear sir variable yada yada poo. Dont care about your intellectual banter for all your presumed smarts you like therein. It does not take a tank much to step outside melee range which is 4 meters from your target, but begins form the center of the boss frames. In most instances you would have to be 2.6-3 meters away to get the extra boost to threat. As a tank you should always taunt outside melee range. Besides you do not have a clue what your talking about your just some math brat trying to show us how big your **** is, guess what not impressed. How about this for your simple narrow minded elistist brain if you taunt outside WHAT THE GAME REGISTERS AS MELEE your taunt will be three times more effective.

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-OBITUS
03.11.2015 , 06:18 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Island_Jedi View Post
You dear sir its your complete lack of knowledge of the game. So dear sir variable yada yada poo. Dont care about your intellectual banter for all your presumed smarts you like therein. It does not take a tank much to step outside melee range which is 4 meters from your target, but begins form the center of the boss frames. In most instances you would have to be 2.6-3 meters away to get the extra boost to threat. As a tank you should always taunt outside melee range, your just bad if you do not know that.
Funny how you didn't quote the second half... or even use anything I typed. Anywho, learn some english. It would be "you lack therein". My gratitude for my intelligence rarely comes up in these forums anyway ;D

Moving forward, I don't tank. Which is why I posted (in the second half, go figure), that I might be wrong and I'd check it this weekend with some tank friends that have cleared 9/10 HM Ravagers-ToS. I would be highly surprised if you could boast the same but props to you if so. Anyways, please tell all the tanks on the second Ravagers how bad they are for not backing up out of melee range when they taunt (lol). Also, where did you get the number 2.6? I can see 3 as the PvP twitchers like to be both ranged and melee so they settle on the threshold where either is easily obtainable. Oh, and the last sentence is "you're just bad..."
Your is possessive while you're means you are.
Cheers!

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Island_Jedi
03.11.2015 , 06:21 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by -OBITUS View Post
Funny how you didn't quote the second half... or even use anything I typed. Anywho, learn some english. It would be "you lack therein". My gratitude for my intelligence rarely comes up in these forums anyway ;D

Moving forward, I don't tank. Which is why I posted (in the second half, go figure), that I might be wrong and I'd check it this weekend with some tank friends that have cleared 9/10 HM Ravagers-ToS. I would be highly surprised if you could boast the same but props to you if so. Anyways, please tell all the tanks on the second Ravagers how bad they are for not backing up out of melee range when they taunt (lol). Also, where did you get the number 2.6? I can see 3 as the PvP twitchers like to be both ranged and melee so they settle on the threshold where either is easily obtainable. Oh, and the last sentence is "you're just bad..."
Your is possessive while you're means you are.
Cheers!
The center of the enemies frames is the measure for distance not the edge. its simple on bigger bosses you can be closer on smaller ones you have to be farther. PVP frames dont change so do not mention it. 2.6 is for larger bosses, smaller one you need to be further.

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Jerba
03.11.2015 , 06:25 PM | #30
This is a great guide, thanks for writing it, good job!
Unfortunately, the players in need of a guide like this are also the ones who'd never read through such a guide and are unwilling to learn but I'm sure there are players who will be helped by it.
While I had no trouble understanding it, I am a little doutful if new players would understand it. You certainly tried to stay away from too many MMO terms and explain it in plain English but some concepts we take for granted are just not known to new players. For example, you assumed that players are familiar with the trinity system and know the difference between tank/healer/DPS.
No guide on a topic like this can ever be fully complete but your guide touched on the most important issues. soowonlee also added some more important information specific to endgame raiding.

Specifically, two things come to my mind that could be improved:
  • A CC is not a 60-second stun. Crowd Control refers to any ability that influences a mob from a hard stun to a mezz, root and knockback/pull, I'd even go as far as counting an interrupt as a CC. 60 second stuns (I call them mezzes) are just a type of CC.
  • I wish you wouldn't focus so much on the individual healing classes, after all you did not mention specific classes in the tank and DPS sections either. Any information like that is prone to be outdated with future patches. General concepts like Reactive and Sustained Healing are universal and will stay but which class excels at which is always subject to change.
Nevertheless, it is a great guide! If my raiding group was not German, I'd tell them to read it - it is a great read for any player willing to improve or refresh their knowledge on game systems, even if you already knew all of it.