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Bioware, your are losing casual customers.


soowonlee's Avatar


soowonlee
03.01.2015 , 12:20 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Przemo_No View Post
But I haven't seen anything more melee unfriendly as the Walkers.

I feel totally useless for my group because either I run like crazy to avoid the damage (that is shot way too often and for way to long) or I stand in the distance and do minimal damage to the boss. in both cases - it means I am a burden, not a help.

Stating that those have "old ops, FPs, planets, GSF and whatever else" is just selfish, elitist and shameful approach.
Those people PAY for the game too.
And they PAID for an access to the new content, that they cannot because the fights are designed such a way that many of them are unable to cope with.
And, please, stop with L2P mumbling.
Walkers or Underlurker ARE really melee unfriendly. Punto.
The contention that SM fights are melee unfriendly is false.

Sword Squadron
The only time you have to move (if you're not the bomb runner) is either to dodge Ground Burst Missile (red circles), if you get Huge Grenade (big white circle), or to switch between walkers. Dodging red circles only requires that you shift several meters. Basically, getting the white circle is the only thing that constitutes a potential dps loss, but everyone has a chance of getting it and it will result in a dps loss even if you're ranged dps.

If you are running around like crazy, then you are doing the fight incorrectly. It's better that you actually observe the fight, as the mechanics are very predictable.

Underlurker
There is no reason why a melee dps can't perform well in story mode. The only disadvantage here is that melee can take more damage from the Lurklings if they have aggro. However, this is not the melee dps's problem. Tanks can taunt off adds, which eliminates the problem of extra damage. It is your responsibility to kill adds as quickly as possible. If you take unavoidable damage in doing so, then it is not your fault. If you find your group failing at this boss, then it's because someone is not doing enough dps. That's a problem with their not knowing how to play their class, not with the boss fight itself.

Everyone who has either subscribed has access to the content. Access doesn't equate to accomplishment. Arguing that content should be made easier on the basis of money paid for it is basically arguing that you should pay to win. Furthermore, you are basically asking that the content be changed to suit your needs when other people are enjoying it as is. Doesn't that sound selfish to you? People who enjoy the difficulty of operations don't demand that the other content be made harder. What gives you the right to demand that operations be made easier? How does your $20 give you more say than their $20?
Bartemaeus
The Harbinger - <Textbook Execution>
Bart's-vanguard, Bart's-cannon, Bart's-sage, Bart's-consular, Bart's-slinger, Bart's-sent, Bart's-jugg, Bart's-merc, Bart's-sorc, Bart's-agent, Bart's-sin

iusCogens's Avatar


iusCogens
03.01.2015 , 01:23 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by soowonlee View Post
Sword Squadron
The only time you have to move (if you're not the bomb runner) is either to dodge Ground Burst Missile (red circles), if you get Huge Grenade (big white circle), or to switch between walkers. Dodging red circles only requires that you shift several meters. Basically, getting the white circle is the only thing that constitutes a potential dps loss, but everyone has a chance of getting it and it will result in a dps loss even if you're ranged dps.

If you are running around like crazy, then you are doing the fight incorrectly. It's better that you actually observe the fight, as the mechanics are very predictable.
This.

DPS and Healers should take very little damage in this fight. Popping defensive cooldown will significantly reduce damage from Huge Grenade, Ground Burst Missile is avoidable and Rolling Mines should be taunted by tanks (even if they hit DPS/Healer, it shouldn't be more than 8k damage). The only damage taken should be from Rain of Missiles which hits for 6k-8k; if someone's health suddenly dropped, they must've stood in stupid. Moving too much is actually detrimental in this fight for melee DPS; if one moved too much they accidentally might wander into the "tank area" and be oneshot by Rapid Fire/Missiles.

Nkya's Avatar


Nkya
03.02.2015 , 04:53 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by soowonlee View Post
The contention that SM fights are melee unfriendly is false.

Sword Squadron
The only time you have to move (if you're not the bomb runner) is either to dodge Ground Burst Missile (red circles), if you get Huge Grenade (big white circle), or to switch between walkers.
(...)
Underlurker
There is no reason why a melee dps can't perform well in story mode. The only disadvantage here is that melee can take more damage from the Lurklings if they have aggro.
It's unbalanced, but still doable. A good melee DPS can perform better than an average ranged one. You have no tactical advantage to replace a ranged DPS for a melee while you make it harder by replacing ranged by melee.

In the sword squadron, ranged don't have to run from the Huge Grenade and can keep DPS until it explode. If all your DPS are ranged, their red dircles don't bother the other. It's pretty much different if 4 DPS (or 10) DPS are melee. Also DPS have to spread out, ranged can do it naturally, while melee arent.

Underlurker, Melee take more damage but also can't DPS the remaining lurkling (or even the boss) while hidding behind a rock.

There is many other bosses, such as chasing Pearl at Coratani's. As ranged, I just stand on a cosy blue disk and do my rotation without moving but I'm constantly out of range when playing melee. With Coratanni can also press the console without losing too much DPS while melee DPS would have to run back and forth. Ruugar cast AOE that random PUG don't cleanse (even if they do, they can't cleanse all because the extended cooldown), stacked melee DPS take damage. Stacking AOE also are an issue, for melee only, on Master and Blaster.

It's not a new issue. It was already addressed in the past: Tyrans in Dread Palace had the bad habit to cast Inferno on random raid members, disadvantaging stacked melee players. It was rebalanced for he casts them more likely on remote players.

Why such a thing wasn't done for the new ops? Why is it still like this 3 months after the public release?

psikofunkster's Avatar


psikofunkster
03.02.2015 , 10:49 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by NogueiraA View Post
I play in 2 different servers, 2 different guilds, saw more than 5 players on each guild leave the game already.
It's people that plays 2-3 days/week, and it's a lot of people.
Reason 1: The game is not a casual friendly anymore.
Reason 2 - Bioware killed pug groups that used to do comms run, they loved the SOCIAL part of 16m groups while clearing STORY mode content. Since TFB/SnV/DF/DP doesn't drop comms anymore, why bother doing it?
Reason 3 - Casuals can't beat the new Ops, period.
Reason 4 - Casuals won't "L2 hardcore" just to kill Bulo or the Walkers whitin 2 second split. They don't bother trying to learn the perfect rotation or how to move out of AoE's in 0.2secs.
Reason 5 - Casuals doesn't have a $5,000 rig to run Swtor 3.0, 16m ops are a performance nightmare.

The new ops are WAY overtuned for SM. I'm NOT talking about HM, please don't misread.

If you have a HM progression group you may or may not understand what I'm saying.

I know some players will say "do HM old ops", well if you find a CASUAL pug group that can beat HM Calphayus, Op 9, Draxus or even Corruptor Zero, I'd love to pug with them... I'm not new to the game I've seen every bad and good move from Bioware and I can afirm, you have hurt the vast majority of your player base.

Yep they killed it, one one of two, they are planing to close the game or they are just plain retarded. No more money for you EA this year, maybe for the next expansion in December, maybe.

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
03.02.2015 , 01:16 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by LukeTheGeek View Post
As a "casual" I have no problem clearing content, old or new. A lot of people say these bosses are too hard but then they acted the exact same way with Styrak for S+V.
Since when do you know the game ? Maybe you know it a bit too good ?

And I often wonder when people defend OPs like they are now - do they know the game too well and falsly assume that everyone who is an casual players does have the same amount of knowledge about the game ?

It's as if an Formulöa 1 car racing pilot was saying to Joe Public : "It really isn't that difficult to drive an Formula 1 racing car !"
Complex minds
will create
Complex problems.

Never_Hesitate's Avatar


Never_Hesitate
03.02.2015 , 02:04 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
Since when do you know the game ? Maybe you know it a bit too good ?

And I often wonder when people defend OPs like they are now - do they know the game too well and falsly assume that everyone who is an casual players does have the same amount of knowledge about the game ?

It's as if an Formulöa 1 car racing pilot was saying to Joe Public : "It really isn't that difficult to drive an Formula 1 racing car !"
Alrik I think you're confusing "casual" with "bad"
waiting for ...

midianlord's Avatar


midianlord
03.02.2015 , 02:21 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Never_Hesitate View Post
Alrik I think you're confusing "casual" with "bad"
It seems like almost everyone in the forum-community is confusing "casual" with "bad" nowadays.

Or as I like to put it, "casual who is a good gamer" versus "wrong kind of 'casual.' "

Good-gamer casuals can learn to clear even very difficult content just fine, and do so all the time...No world/server firsts for their group, but I'm sure most such groups couldn't care less about that sort of thing, if it even occurs to them at all.

The wrong kind of "casual" on the other hand, are those who get our content nerfed/dumbed down, our classes nerfed and ruined (**** all those useless CoD kidiots who think they're PvPers in this game. Just **** them.), and development stagnated on everything but that repugnant cash shop.

Those are an absolute cancer on the community, and the game would be much better off if they were "encouraged" to leave, and stay gone. If genuinely hard content is what it takes to do so, then I'm all for more, more, more! (It would seem that we can't realistically ostracize or grief them out of the game, soooo.....)

Quality >>>>>...> Quantity, OK?

[cynicism]

Especially here, as the IP is going to pretty much guarantee a steady stream of revenue for the foreseeable future no matter what happens, or how demonstrably incompetent the dev-team is, and/or how demonstrably toxic and base the community becomes.

[/cynicism]
Merc and 'Slinger since launch, Merc and 'Slinger for life
(Feels good, doesn't it? Well it certainly does for me!)

LordCJK's Avatar


LordCJK
03.02.2015 , 02:49 PM | #28
You don't need to be hardcore to clear the SM operations. You just need to know how to play your class and the tactics for these operations. And no, by ''know how to play'' I don't mean you should practice a lot of hours on a dummy as DPS. You just should know what you are supposed to do. Is it hard? No. Can you learn that by running quests and Kuat? Not necessarily.
Operations are not planetary quests.
If the problem is group coordination, well, you expect it from 8/16-man operation. The number of ppl in there is that these people would coordinate and kill the boss.

mynameisbugged's Avatar


mynameisbugged
03.02.2015 , 04:10 PM | #29
ITT, non-casuals teaching casuals to l2play.

midianlord's Avatar


midianlord
03.02.2015 , 05:07 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by mynameisbugged View Post
ITT, non-casuals teaching casuals to l2play.
ITT, weak troll is weak.

Come on already, mate: Trolling through deliberate obtuseness is so two years ago, it's not even pitiful.

1/10.
Merc and 'Slinger since launch, Merc and 'Slinger for life
(Feels good, doesn't it? Well it certainly does for me!)