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Consolidated: Consular Sage Melee should scale with Willpower Thread

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Jedi Consular > Sage
Consolidated: Consular Sage Melee should scale with Willpower Thread

Strixs's Avatar


Strixs
12.26.2011 , 12:47 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Anelyn View Post
Because this is what would happen: you will take on that champ mob with your pet, meleeing it for no force cost regening to heal pet, while still doing great dps on him.

Seriously is just an aesthetic for you guys, take it for what it is :>
Lol, Scoundrel / Commando who are heal specced already do what you described except their no-cost attack at least does moderate dmg because it is scaled with their stats...

And Then if its just aesthetic why is a Healing commandos gun still usable and a Healing scoundrels gun still usable for decent amounts of dps. Sure its not burst but it does help.

Prvtdonut's Avatar


Prvtdonut
12.26.2011 , 01:34 PM | #22
Please don't implement any form of melee combat aside from what already exists. I rolled a Consular Sage to heal and use Force attacks. If I wanted to be a Consular that uses a Saber for damage, I would have rolled Shadow, or more likely, rolled either Advanced Class that a Jedi Knight has.

Alesthes's Avatar


Alesthes
12.26.2011 , 03:58 PM | #23
I definitely endorse the OP.

Shadow specced Consulars do have some viable ranged damage abilities, even if not as powerful as Sages. There's no reason for Sages not to be able to have some viable melee abilities, even if not as powerful as Shadows. Think out of the box once in a while, please.
And yes, I know, Shadows can't heal themselves. But they can go stealth, while sages don't.

You can have different opinions on this, sure. But stop stating that Willpower scaling in melee for Sages would be clearly overpowered as if it was a self-evident statment. It just ISN'T the case.
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Samaul's Avatar


Samaul
12.26.2011 , 05:05 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Prvtdonut View Post
Please don't implement any form of melee combat aside from what already exists. I rolled a Consular Sage to heal and use Force attacks. If I wanted to be a Consular that uses a Saber for damage, I would have rolled Shadow, or more likely, rolled either Advanced Class that a Jedi Knight has.
I am not asking for more abilities, just that existing abilities scale with willpower. That could hardly be considered OP.

PossibleBit's Avatar


PossibleBit
12.26.2011 , 07:27 PM | #25
So basically you're advocating to take an ability that sucks and is unused and buff it to still suck and still be unused?

Samaul's Avatar


Samaul
12.27.2011 , 01:22 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Prvtdonut View Post
Please don't implement any form of melee combat aside from what already exists. I rolled a Consular Sage to heal and use Force attacks. If I wanted to be a Consular that uses a Saber for damage, I would have rolled Shadow, or more likely, rolled either Advanced Class that a Jedi Knight has.
I think the difference of opinion here is between those who see the Sage as a Jedi and those who see the Sage as another MMO class that needs to have an existing MMO archetype grafted onto it and then never stray from that archetype.

If I wanted to roll a mage, or a warrior, or a priest or a shaman etc. I would be playing WoW or RIFT. I am a Jedi whose ally is the force. My gift is that I weild the power of the force like a weapon and I weild the weapon of a Jedi, the Lightsabre.

If you cannot understand the distinction, watch the Star Wars movies, read a star wars novel. If you still dont get it, it is not me that needs to reroll, maybe it is you who is playing the wrong game. I am certain that BioWare and Lucas Arts understand that a Sage is a Jedi but I am not sure that some of you do.

maximusz's Avatar


maximusz
12.27.2011 , 02:13 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Samaul View Post
I think the difference of opinion here is between those who see the Sage as a Jedi and those who see the Sage as another MMO class that needs to have an existing MMO archetype grafted onto it and then never stray from that archetype.

If I wanted to roll a mage, or a warrior, or a priest or a shaman etc. I would be playing WoW or RIFT. I am a Jedi whose ally is the force. My gift is that I weild the power of the force like a weapon and I weild the weapon of a Jedi, the Lightsabre.

If you cannot understand the distinction, watch the Star Wars movies, read a star wars novel. If you still dont get it, it is not me that needs to reroll, maybe it is you who is playing the wrong game. I am certain that BioWare and Lucas Arts understand that a Sage is a Jedi but I am not sure that some of you do.
After a lengthy read I was upset until I got to this post. This is someone who understands the mythos the game is centered upon. YES, the Sage should be able to incorporate the saber into their abilities. It has been referenced that the class is modeled after Yoda and The Emperor. Yoda was one of the best duelists, period. The Emperor took on 4 masters in saber combat only to be bested by Mace, who happens to be one of the best in the business. If I wanted a wizard I would play WoW or some other themed title. This is Star Wars, if you trained as a jedi means you handle the saber. This is what they are know for.

Now in game we know yes things would get stupid if after using several force powers I then use a strong saber power to waste my opponent. My game is the range game. I do healing better than the smuggler who does better damage from range than I do. It is give and take. Does it suck, well yes it does. My character has the biggest weakness of all jedi class. With a good damage dealing Knight in front then I can make a difference.

The truth of the matter is not the Sage's power. They are strong. What fans want is to be what they have seen in the movies and read in books. Is that too much to ask?

Sapphix's Avatar


Sapphix
12.27.2011 , 09:23 AM | #28
LOL, I agree with Samaul & Maximusz. This isn't a high fantasy, it is Star Wars. Sage or not he is a Jedi and should make use of his light saber. What's more important, upholding someone's idea of a Mage/Wizard/Caster or living up to the standard of a Jedi?

We as players get locked up into what classes should do that accepting a new idea is like passing a grapefruit. We seem to forget that great and unique classes ignore preset notions. Here is a tip: If this idea angers you, you are wrong. If you disagree with this idea and can post a constructive counterarguments then perhaps you have valid points to be discussed.

Numbers can be balanced in many ways but giving a ranged class a 'bump' in melee damage will not greatly upsurp the balance already created. Maybe scaling melee damage off willpower isn't the answer but I support melee/lightsaber possibilities for the Jedi Sage.

Grahame's Avatar


Grahame
12.27.2011 , 01:04 PM | #29
Hello, my name is Grahame. I'm a level 43 telekinetic sage and I still use Double Strike...

On a more serious note:

I still find Double Strike very handy for finishing off weak/normal mobs, especially when I couple it with Tumult, when they're in melee range since it's an instant activation. However, I also admit that there are many occasions where I use it out of principle (I make a deliberate effort to finish story line bosses with a saber thwack). Generally this is all I need to make me feel like a real Jedi.

As much as I would like willpower to enhance my two saber strikes, I have some concerns about it. (Not concerned about Strike though, it would still be craptacular.)
  1. Gameplay Change (Main reason for Bioware I suspect)
    I don't believe it would be overpowered in PvE, BUT it could result in gameplay confusion. If willpower enhanced melee continued, nothing would tell a new level 10 sage to stop running into melee as they did before selecting an advanced class. As this sage/sorc advances and runs flashpoints they could get discouraged when running headlong into melee gets them squished. This would be bad for game & class retention.
  2. PvP
    It would definitely help sages when fighting melee (I haven't PvP'ed enough yet to make a reasonable guess how much though). I'm guessing here that DS would hit about as hard as Disturbance but have the advantage of being uninterruptable. I'm sure the sage/sorc would still want to stay out of melee range as much as possible, but in the instance that a warrior/knight forces the sage/sorc to remain in melee range the warrior/knight will face higher damage output from the sage/sorc.

Khadroth's Avatar


Khadroth
12.27.2011 , 01:18 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Samaul View Post
The concept is simple
The implementation is not.
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