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Consolidated: Consular Sage Melee should scale with Willpower Thread

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Consolidated: Consular Sage Melee should scale with Willpower Thread

Samaul's Avatar


Samaul
12.24.2011 , 06:43 AM | #1
Please put your thoughts concerning Consular Sage melee or Lightsabre damage should scale with willpower here.

The concept is simple

Quote:
Consular Sage melee or Lightsabre damage should scale with the willpower stat or Sage melee damage should increase with our willpower stat. Sages should have more than just autoattack melee damage.
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Edit: Clarifications on what we are looking for and whether it would affect class balance

1. The Sage is a Jedi not a mage. The sage weilds the force as his or her primary weapon. The lightsabre is a support weapon for the Sage.

2. The Lightsabre is arguably the most powerful melee weapon in any MMORPG, ever. In lore jedi are able to cut through hardened alloy steel with their lightsabre. Therefore, the lightsabre should not hit like a wet noodle as it does for the sage.

3. The sages Lightsabre should be a last resort melee weapon with limited effectiveness at close range.

4. Sage lightsabre attacks should hit for a fraction of the damage of melee dps classes.

5. The Sage's lightsabre attacks should hit for more than auto-attack damage.

6. The Sage's current melee lightsabre abilities should be sufficient for the Sage. There is no need for additional sage melee abilities.

7. The Sage could use a single ranged Lightsabre throw and recall ability.

8. The Sage's lightsabre attacks should have added utility such as Force generation.

9. The Sage desperately needs a melee finisher. It is ludicrous that we are defenseless in melee range. A melee dps at 5% health can easily finish a sage at half health while they wait for the cd of the next cc, lockdown, shield or escape ability.

10. There is no precedent in lore for a lightsabre that is set on low or stun.

Some say that scaling sage melee attacks with willpower cause class balance issues. This is pure hyperbole. First we have only two weak lightsabre attacks. Second, our melee damage is so low that it hardly registers on targets in pve much less pvp. Current sage melee damage is quite literally weapon damage with an occaisional crit. That means at level 25 we are hitting for about 50-100 damage on a target with 5-6k hp in pvp. Even if Sage melee damage were doubled it would hardly register on any damage parse.

The fundamental question for sage melee is this

Is the Sage a Mage or Jedi?

I came to SWTOR to play a Jedi, not a Mage. If I wanted to play a Mage, I would have stayed in RIFT.

Sage melee damage reality check

Even if Sage melee damage did scale with willpower and were buffed by as much as 100%, it would still be a fraction of that of dedicated melee dps classes and tanks. Even with double our current melee damage, for any sage to attempt to stand toe to toe with any dedicated melee dps class or tank would be suicide. This change would be largely symbolic but important in that it would be an acknowledgement by BioWare that the Sage is not just another cookie-cutter archetypal mage or priest, that the sage is in fact a Jedi. The Lightsabre is the Jedi's weapon.

AdamLKvist's Avatar


AdamLKvist
12.24.2011 , 08:50 AM | #2
Yeah no.

I see where you're coming from and from a cosmetic/artistic perspective I do agree. I would like my sage to use his saber more. However I made a choice to play a "mage" (which is what the Sage's role).

Granting the Sage bonus melee damage from willpower would be immensely overpowered, if you gaev too small of a boost "not making it op" it would be useless, since everything in the Sage's rotation, skills and trees encourages him to stay as far away as possible.


The only solution possible is some sort of saber throw spell, but since guardians have it we will probably not get it either.



I do in no way mean to sound insulting or such, but you might consider rerolling before its too late - cause you didnt pick a saber "wielding" class, you picked a force wielding class.

Cheers

Samaul's Avatar


Samaul
12.24.2011 , 12:35 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by AdamLKvist View Post
Yeah no.

I see where you're coming from and from a cosmetic/artistic perspective I do agree. I would like my sage to use his saber more. However I made a choice to play a "mage" (which is what the Sage's role).

Granting the Sage bonus melee damage from willpower would be immensely overpowered, if you gaev too small of a boost "not making it op" it would be useless, since everything in the Sage's rotation, skills and trees encourages him to stay as far away as possible.


The only solution possible is some sort of saber throw spell, but since guardians have it we will probably not get it either.



I do in no way mean to sound insulting or such, but you might consider rerolling before its too late - cause you didnt pick a saber "wielding" class, you picked a force wielding class.

Cheers
We have a sabre, we should be able to use it effectively, though not as effectively as a knight or shadow. Its that simple.

AdamLKvist's Avatar


AdamLKvist
12.24.2011 , 01:07 PM | #4
Since you went the "its that simple" route making yourself look ignorant and "i know best your opinion matters not"

Let me reply in the kind of way you'd understand.

Y o u a r e w r o ng.

/Thread.

Caibre's Avatar


Caibre
12.24.2011 , 02:14 PM | #5
The downfall is that we have very limited options of what to do as a healer when the group is topped off. You can't simple spam damage spells like other healers potentially can, due to the nature of our resource.

Having a ranged non-force requiring ability to throw some damage out during these times would be superb.

Another option is to give the Seer tree some sort of regen mechanic through usage of damage spells, not including Concentration in the TK tree, as you spend more force casting 3x Disturbance than you regen from 30% increased rate over 10 seconds.

Bourdon's Avatar


Bourdon
12.24.2011 , 02:23 PM | #6
sages can't have effective melee abilities, otherwise they'd be way too powerful. it's a pretty simple concept that some people can't grasp.

Samaul's Avatar


Samaul
12.24.2011 , 03:54 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Caibre View Post
The downfall is that we have very limited options of what to do as a healer when the group is topped off. You can't simple spam damage spells like other healers potentially can, due to the nature of our resource.

Having a ranged non-force requiring ability to throw some damage out during these times would be superb.

Another option is to give the Seer tree some sort of regen mechanic through usage of damage spells, not including Concentration in the TK tree, as you spend more force casting 3x Disturbance than you regen from 30% increased rate over 10 seconds.
Yes, this is the problem and we are very vulnerable in melee range.

Samaul's Avatar


Samaul
12.24.2011 , 03:56 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Bourdon View Post
sages can't have effective melee abilities, otherwise they'd be way too powerful. it's a pretty simple concept that some people can't grasp.
What you are doing is imposing rules from classes from other games that do not apply to star wars. No, we are not mages. There are no mages in the star wars universe.

I am not looking for a huge buff. Maybe 10-20% damage which isnt much considering our current pitiful melee damage.

Fyresygn's Avatar


Fyresygn
12.24.2011 , 08:59 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Caibre View Post
The downfall is that we have very limited options of what to do as a healer when the group is topped off. You can't simple spam damage spells like other healers potentially can, due to the nature of our resource.

Having a ranged non-force requiring ability to throw some damage out during these times would be superb.

Another option is to give the Seer tree some sort of regen mechanic through usage of damage spells, not including Concentration in the TK tree, as you spend more force casting 3x Disturbance than you regen from 30% increased rate over 10 seconds.

I think the best of both worlds here would be a ranged, no cost, basic attack like other healers have.

We often don't want to be in melee range, so what about a "Saber Toss" ability that does damage on the way there, and back. It would be equivalent to a Smuggler healer or Commando's basic attack.

Plus, we would be using our saber, but still in a very telekinesis/Sage way.

XtremJedi's Avatar


XtremJedi
12.25.2011 , 02:38 AM | #10
I don't see why Willpower shouldn't affect the no-cost attack. I can understand the argument that the rest of the damage tool-set is balanced around having no viable no-cost attack at present but it would be easy enough to re-balance it accordingly.

One option would be to include something in the Seer tree that extended the range of Sabre Strike. It does have the drawback that Sabre Throw has become something of a class defining ability and so may not be given up lightly...

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