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3.0 Assassin DPS Theorycrafting Results

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
3.0 Assassin DPS Theorycrafting Results

Aelanis's Avatar


Aelanis
12.26.2014 , 01:14 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by MiaowZedong View Post
If your burst window before downtime is too short to let you get an extra attack due to alacrity, alacrity does not help your DPS. The downtime does not have to be very long—if you miss being able to cast on GCD at any time before getting the extra attack, your alacrity's contribution to DPS is strictly zero.

As an example, if you have 10 seconds before you have to move due to a template, you do 6 attacks with 0 alacrity and 6 attacks with 4.9% alacrity. The benefit of having 4.9% alacrity there is exactly 0 DPS. However, if you have exactly 5% alacrity you get 7 instead of 6 attacks, for a considerable increase in DPS.
Adixia already commented on this, but squeezing in that extra dot tick in that window is still a dps increase, even if you can't fit another full global into it. Regardless, we're not talking about a burst window here, where you need to get extra hits in on a target in a short amount of time. Alacrity is largely useless, and nearly completely so for non-dot-classes, for increasing burst until you get an absurd amount of it. If you had exactly 42 seconds to attack a target (slow bomb runner on Unit 1 in the Sword Squadron fight), 3.57% Alacrity would net you a full extra global to hit the target with, and exactly 3.57% more damage from any 100% uptime dot on the target.
Quote: Originally Posted by MiaowZedong View Post
While you could say something similar for most stats (if the RNG grants you less crits than expected, both crit and surge underperform), in the case of alacrity it is not dependent on the RNG but on the fight, on the internet connection, and your ability to maintain uptime (or your opponent's ability to reduce your uptime, in PvP).

Against that, alacrity does have one very real advantage for all classes other than Warrior and Knight, for fights with prolonged, enforced downtimes. During your downtime, alacrity makes you regenerate more resources. Whenever downtimes are significant, this means you can burn resources faster during uptime.

That said: it's more common to lose a second here or there than to have many GCD of enforced downtime. For melee DPS in a movement heavy fight, alacrity can be quite a gamble. It is more likely to pay for ranged DPS and healers.
You don't need long bouts of downtime for Alacrity to benefit you. Any time you lose a second or two of uptime, Alacrity still benefits you, and it does add up over time. Any time you have to target switch, it benefits you more than any other stat, as a melee class, because no other stat does anything while you can't be on the target.
Quote: Originally Posted by MiaowZedong View Post
And? They do the same damage per cast. If you can't cast the DoT an extra time, it will do the same ammount of damage.
Except that if your dot gets clipped early, having alacrity means that you will, unless it got clipped quite early, have gotten more ticks in from your dot in the same amount of time. Alacrity is incredibly useful, and all of my characters will be running at least some if it does not mess up synchronization of cooldowns or energy management too badly.
Dulfy Guides: Hatred, Serenity, Darkness, Kinetic Combat
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Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
12.26.2014 , 01:24 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by MiaowZedong View Post
And? They do the same damage per cast. If you can't cast the DoT an extra time, it will do the same ammount of damage.
Factually.. It will do less damage.
If you at least had more surge the crits wouldve hit slightly harder.


Your argument can be offset for any situation though... Sometimes over a longer period of time you WILL get more abilities off.. It evens out.
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Hellhog's Avatar


Hellhog
12.29.2014 , 07:48 AM | #23
I don't think I'll ever be able to be set on an exact ratio of Surge:Alacrity and be happy about it. Even after reading the OP. Right now I have a 3:1 going with the extra optimized enhancement in inventory where I can test out a 2:2 ratio. But my parses seem to run about +/- 50 dps on average. That 100 spread may make it hard for me to see if there is actually any difference, unless the average is actually higher. I did notice though with 1 alacrity piece my APM has gone up from a 39.9-40.1 average to about 41.0 it seems according to parsec. Sitting at just under a 4 min TTK on a 1 mil health dummy makes me wonder though if I'd benefit from nixing the alacrity and just having surge since I don't use the best method for attacking in hatred. I don't keep my DoTs on a 3 GCD spread, just has never felt comfortable to me. I keep them together for the most part. I just wonder if those 4 extra attacks I'm getting off are better than the extra 3% crit multiplier I could potentially have and also how that translates to the different boss fights. In the end the difference probably won't matter too much. But still kind of drives me crazy.
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Aelanis's Avatar


Aelanis
12.29.2014 , 09:31 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Hellhog View Post
I don't think I'll ever be able to be set on an exact ratio of Surge:Alacrity and be happy about it. Even after reading the OP. Right now I have a 3:1 going with the extra optimized enhancement in inventory where I can test out a 2:2 ratio. But my parses seem to run about +/- 50 dps on average. That 100 spread may make it hard for me to see if there is actually any difference, unless the average is actually higher. I did notice though with 1 alacrity piece my APM has gone up from a 39.9-40.1 average to about 41.0 it seems according to parsec. Sitting at just under a 4 min TTK on a 1 mil health dummy makes me wonder though if I'd benefit from nixing the alacrity and just having surge since I don't use the best method for attacking in hatred. I don't keep my DoTs on a 3 GCD spread, just has never felt comfortable to me. I keep them together for the most part. I just wonder if those 4 extra attacks I'm getting off are better than the extra 3% crit multiplier I could potentially have and also how that translates to the different boss fights. In the end the difference probably won't matter too much. But still kind of drives me crazy.
Here's the thing. 3% extra surge percent is not worth 3% damage, unlike 3% Alacrity. You have to multiply it through by your damage-weighted critical hit chance. For the parse I used in my guide on Dulfy, my weighted crit chance was 35.75%. 3% extra surge for me would have been a 1.07% damage increase. An extra piece of Alacrity (2, up from 1) would have been a 1.5% dps increase. The difference is honestly fairly small (half a percent), so you might not notice it due to parse variation, but it is indeed there.
Dulfy Guides: Hatred, Serenity, Darkness, Kinetic Combat
Ellendra - Death MarkExit Area - Theraton
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Aelanis's Avatar


Aelanis
12.30.2014 , 05:37 PM | #25
Updated the OP, including an edit, because I simply wasn't careful enough in setting up my equations.
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svenofnine's Avatar


svenofnine
01.08.2015 , 05:02 PM | #26
just wondering if this post or is xinika thread will be updated cause there are two different stats for deception between the two threads when it comes to surge, crit, and alacrity. that brings me to my question on if i should drop alacrity and get more surge as i'm at 69% and doing 12k-13k crits on the regular bases. maybe i can up that number if i get more surge, and drop alacirty?
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Aelanis's Avatar


Aelanis
01.08.2015 , 08:14 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by svenofnine View Post
just wondering if this post or is xinika thread will be updated cause there are two different stats for deception between the two threads when it comes to surge, crit, and alacrity. that brings me to my question on if i should drop alacrity and get more surge as i'm at 69% and doing 12k-13k crits on the regular bases. maybe i can up that number if i get more surge, and drop alacirty?
You won't get bigger crits if you drop Surge. If you trade surge for alacrity, you'll just do everything a little bit faster (except get your extra regen and Recklessness reset from stealth).

As for the reason why there are inconsistencies: Evolixe wrote hit guide before I got done with this math. Evolixe is also strictly against running any Alacrity in Deception, whereas I'm only against running too much alacrity, not that I even know how much is too much. I think my next project is going to be figuring out when Alacrity stop positively affecting Deception and starts hurting its damage due to too much delay on the stealthing out portion of your regen.
Dulfy Guides: Hatred, Serenity, Darkness, Kinetic Combat
Ellendra - Death MarkExit Area - Theraton
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Xinika's Avatar


Xinika
01.08.2015 , 11:00 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Aelanis View Post
You won't get bigger crits if you drop Surge. If you trade surge for alacrity, you'll just do everything a little bit faster (except get your extra regen and Recklessness reset from stealth).

As for the reason why there are inconsistencies: Evolixe wrote hit guide before I got done with this math. Evolixe is also strictly against running any Alacrity in Deception, whereas I'm only against running too much alacrity, not that I even know how much is too much. I think my next project is going to be figuring out when Alacrity stop positively affecting Deception and starts hurting its damage due to too much delay on the stealthing out portion of your regen.
Share those results on that project please. I'm paying attention to your findings.
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Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
01.09.2015 , 02:38 AM | #29
The reason im strictly against running alscrity for deception is simply because it has no noteworthy pressure output above the norm. Getting alacrity.. Some of it, could serve in pve.

However in PvP the ONLY reason you will EVER play dec is it's burst.
Might as well make it as powerful as possible rather than trying to maximize nonexistant output.
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Aelanis's Avatar


Aelanis
01.09.2015 , 08:10 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
The reason im strictly against running alscrity for deception is simply because it has no noteworthy pressure output above the norm. Getting alacrity.. Some of it, could serve in pve.

However in PvP the ONLY reason you will EVER play dec is it's burst.
Might as well make it as powerful as possible rather than trying to maximize nonexistant output.
And that is an incredibly valid reason to not run Alacrity in PvP, and will be more so a reason if they up Deception's burst to make it closer to AP PT's.
Dulfy Guides: Hatred, Serenity, Darkness, Kinetic Combat
Ellendra - Death MarkExit Area - Theraton
The Shadowlands