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Sorcs are BROKEN!!!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Sorcs are BROKEN!!!

AdrianDmitruk's Avatar


AdrianDmitruk
01.14.2015 , 02:46 PM | #291
Quote: Originally Posted by JadenYugari View Post
Undying rage doesnt protect from CCs. If a Mara drops it, I can still stun/lift/mezz/<insert CC here> them for most/all of its duration and I know that after certain duration I can return to finish him because his health wont change (unless he gets healed).
With Force Barrier I cant do that. I have to either:
1) Sit near you and wait for it to deactivate which, for the duration, makes me completely useless and non-contributing.
2) Switch my focus to someone else, allowing you to deactivate it sooner, heal yourself (effectively nullifying my efforts) and to continue healing your teammates.

If they at least make it so, that you have to wait out its FULL duration and cannot cancel it any sooner, or maybe make it so that it depletes your Force to zero and prevents regen while the effect is active that would be imo enough.
You don't have to stun/mez us during Force Barrier, because we're doing that to ourselves.

Before Enduring Bastion, that weakness in the cooldown rendered it useless unless we had alternate forms of CC available to allow us to escape the hyenas (i.e. grenades) as we left the barrier. That is why they added Enduring Bastion.

Bubblestun should have remained within lightning discipline. Allowing madness (and yes, I'll admit, healers) to get it was just LOL after Bioware claimed to "destroy hybrids" with 3.0. Fixing that alone would help with a lot of cc balance issues with regard to marauders and such.

Yes we have balance issues (madness has been FOTM for a while now) but Force Barrier isn't one of them. You just think it is because you remember that time a sorc popped it with 12 HP left and someone healed said sorc to full. Marauders have been doing one variation or another of that since launch, and unlike us they can continue to dps and move while they're doing it.

I'm not complaining about UR. Marauders need it. But there were some very good reasons why Force Barrier was changed to its present state, that you probably would not understand unless you played a non-FOTM sorc spec before it was buffed with Enduring Bastion. (Remember how long corruption sorcs were told to h2f, play defensively, and make them pay for trying to kill you, while the skill level required for the class might be higher than some players were comfortable with? It wasn't just our perception problem.)
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Saikochoro's Avatar


Saikochoro
01.14.2015 , 02:51 PM | #292
Quote: Originally Posted by AdrianDmitruk View Post
If you want to nerf it to undying rage with a purge, then remove the self stun from it and then we'll talk...

It's not like we get to do anything during that immunity. And if we have to use it as a counter to burst, we probably don't have time to spend 2 globals setting up our perfect little hots to h2f during its duration before we pop it.

Hell before Enduring Bastion FB was practically a force taunt in that the entire enemy team would circle around you waiting for the barrier to drop so they could get their free kill. I had to save my grenade to cover an escape after using it, which prevented me from using it as a separate cooldown. That was clearly never intended by Bioware.

If you don't believe me, they gave stealth classes access to utilities that automatically purge on combat stealth--it's pretty clear they don't intend that you should HAVE to save one of your cooldowns just to make another cooldown useful.

I should clarify that I speak as a healer, not a DPS. Madness has long had...separate balance issues. Force Barrier is not one of them. (Mostly rather than spamming blatant dot immunity to cleanses they should have made it like the old lethality dot protection where you can cleanse to mitigate damage but they still get their procs and such from a reapplied dot...you know the counterplay Bioware keeps talking about.)
Force barrier before enduring bastion was what it should be...a pure anti focus button. Especially in an arena if your team is just letting the enemies circle you like sharks while your in barrier then you team deserves to lose. If the other enemies are circling you like Sharks while you have barrier up in an arena they also deserve to lose. Total fail on both sides. Force barrier should be an anti focus button and that it. Force barrier should stay. Enduring bastion should go. You team should learn to peel when you pop barrier and the enemies should learn to switch focus when you pop it. That is what barrier was meant to do. Just because players don't know how to play doesn't mean barrier needed to be buffed. Plus you can take a utility that will basically heal you to full during barrier/bastion. I don't think anyone should have a problem with barrier. Barrier is perfect. Enduring bastion and the healing utility is the problem. There is no reason sorcs should have a large absorption bubble, passive healing, and interrupt immunity after popping their anti focus button. That is just stupid. They turned it into an anti focus button, which will then proc tank/heal button for a few seconds.

It would be like having force shroud proc deflection when it ended for sins. Or having camo proc undying rage with no health cost for maras (not exactly the same but you get the idea). There is no reason barrier should have bastion. Bastion needs to go. Barrier needs to remain.

I agree with your take on the dot solution. They should have just given all dots the protection that lethality used to have instead of making them all uncleansable. That was just dumb.

generalstonestar's Avatar


generalstonestar
01.14.2015 , 03:07 PM | #293
Ha your hilarious Sorcers do have a cool down on bubbles! And there immunity ability has a cool down! And all classes can get a million+ damage you fool.
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Saikochoro's Avatar


Saikochoro
01.14.2015 , 03:33 PM | #294
Quote: Originally Posted by generalstonestar View Post
Ha your hilarious Sorcers do have a cool down on bubbles! And there immunity ability has a cool down! And all classes can get a million+ damage you fool.
Who are you replying to? Or are you just replying to original post?

Lattervane's Avatar


Lattervane
01.14.2015 , 03:49 PM | #295
Quote: Originally Posted by Saikochoro View Post
Force barrier before enduring bastion was what it should be...a pure anti focus button. Especially in an arena if your team is just letting the enemies circle you like sharks while your in barrier then you team deserves to lose. If the other enemies are circling you like Sharks while you have barrier up in an arena they also deserve to lose. Total fail on both sides. Force barrier should be an anti focus button and that it. Force barrier should stay. Enduring bastion should go. You team should learn to peel when you pop barrier and the enemies should learn to switch focus when you pop it. That is what barrier was meant to do. Just because players don't know how to play doesn't mean barrier needed to be buffed. Plus you can take a utility that will basically heal you to full during barrier/bastion. I don't think anyone should have a problem with barrier. Barrier is perfect. Enduring bastion and the healing utility is the problem. There is no reason sorcs should have a large absorption bubble, passive healing, and interrupt immunity after popping their anti focus button. That is just stupid. They turned it into an anti focus button, which will then proc tank/heal button for a few seconds.

It would be like having force shroud proc deflection when it ended for sins. Or having camo proc undying rage with no health cost for maras (not exactly the same but you get the idea). There is no reason barrier should have bastion. Bastion needs to go. Barrier needs to remain.

I agree with your take on the dot solution. They should have just given all dots the protection that lethality used to have instead of making them all uncleansable. That was just dumb.

First of all, the argument that Force Barrier = a self stun or self mezz is garbage. You can choose when to end Force Barrier, you cannot choose when to end a stun or mezz effect on you. Also Force Barrier provides healing, damage and interrupt immunity, and then the absorb bubble after. Not to mention while a sorc is in force barrier, all their other abilities are coming off cooldown, i.e. stuns, slows, force speed, etc.


I don't have a problem with Sorcs having an anti-focus ability like Force Barrier. My problem is 1. They didn't give similar abilities to other ranged classes like mercs/commando's and snipers/gunslingers. 2. All the extra crap the barrier does beyond being an anti-focus tool is just absurd. The 3 min cooldown may be too short, maybe 5 min would be more appropriate. In an 8v8 warzone with 3+sorcs you see force barriers constantly. It makes killing the sorcs absurdly challenging.

I want sorcs to have survivability. I want every class to have that. But the degree to which sorcs have it over other (specifically ranged) classes is just mind blowingly not balanced.

Saikochoro's Avatar


Saikochoro
01.14.2015 , 03:59 PM | #296
The thing that makes barrier stupid is enduring bastion. Without enduring bastion barrier is just a pure anti focus button, which is what it should be. Get rid of enduring bastion and I'd be happy.

Oh and there is no denying that sorcs are miles ahead of the other two ranged classes. The only thing the other two classes have over sorcs is burst. Sorcs have more mobility, better survivability, and more utility. And overall they can do as much damage if not more than the other two even though they have less burst. Lightning sorcs can still burst pretty good. There is definitely imbalance between the ranged classes.

nrevox's Avatar


nrevox
01.14.2015 , 04:29 PM | #297
Quote: Originally Posted by Saikochoro View Post
The thing that makes barrier stupid is enduring bastion. Without enduring bastion barrier is just a pure anti focus button, which is what it should be. Get rid of enduring bastion and I'd be happy.

Oh and there is no denying that sorcs are miles ahead of the other two ranged classes. The only thing the other two classes have over sorcs is burst. Sorcs have more mobility, better survivability, and more utility. And overall they can do as much damage if not more than the other two even though they have less burst. Lightning sorcs can still burst pretty good. There is definitely imbalance between the ranged classes.
the imbalance is between players and teams. juggs, PT's, sins, and ops are perfectly tooled to kill sorcs. it happens all day, everyday.

these posts are good discussion, but you will never get everyone to agree with each other. changes are always going to come. we just have to wait and see who they agree with I guess.

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
01.14.2015 , 05:27 PM | #298
Having played a Corruption Sorc in 3.0, I can say that we're not broken. We've just been buffed to where Operatives are. Previously, Mercs and Ops were just so much better than Sorcs, now Mercs are slightly better and Ops are the same. Because we had to deal with being a weaker class, we couldn't afford to be lazy and had to push it to be competitive in ranked PvP. Now that we're on par, those of us who had to heal like crazy to get Tier 1 are reaping the benefits of all that hard work.
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Skot-'s Avatar


Skot-
01.14.2015 , 05:42 PM | #299
Honestly think sins, pt and jugg are in a better place than sorc. A sorc will top damage if you leave them be and don't target them, generally once if you focus them they drop like flies. Sins, juggs and pt are a lot more durable.

I have no issue with sorcs in warzones. If they had to be nerfed I would say slightly decrease the damage on force storm.

I know the feeling of having a class stripped badly (aka operative concealment) because of baddies raging on forums.

Ideally I would like to see the under performing classes buffed instead of nerfing.
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Saikochoro's Avatar


Saikochoro
01.14.2015 , 06:46 PM | #300
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
Having played a Corruption Sorc in 3.0, I can say that we're not broken. We've just been buffed to where Operatives are. Previously, Mercs and Ops were just so much better than Sorcs, now Mercs are slightly better and Ops are the same. Because we had to deal with being a weaker class, we couldn't afford to be lazy and had to push it to be competitive in ranked PvP. Now that we're on par, those of us who had to heal like crazy to get Tier 1 are reaping the benefits of all that hard work.
I don't think the complaints are about healer sorcs. Or at least they shouldn't be. Healer sorcs got well deserved buff.