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@Georg Zoeller: lets talk about the Warrior, and why you dont want us to fight elites

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
@Georg Zoeller: lets talk about the Warrior, and why you dont want us to fight elites
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Megaflayer's Avatar


Megaflayer
12.24.2011 , 09:22 PM | #41
Is this a joke? I'm level 31 and the last several elites I fought on Alderan (ranging from 28-30), I destroyed. And I was 30 when I fought them. It wasn't even worth a challenge. I have more trouble with groups than Elites. I'm using Quinn to heal and the last few Elites I fought couldn't even get me below 90%. Honestly, I don't think they got me below 95%. You call them Elites. I call them trash. If I want a challenge I'll fight a group that includes a few Strong enemies. Even then, I know how to fight to so that I can usually win with most of my health without even using a mitigation Cool-down.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe enemies start getting tough after this. I'm not too worried.

Yori's Avatar


Yori
12.24.2011 , 09:32 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by boba_dan View Post

More than that, even if its doable as invinc with a specific crafting profession, that sort of emphasizes the point that I and other people are making; that other specs (and other crafting professions- no reason you should be forced into a specific one) can't do anything close (for them, elite + strong or even single elites can be deadly).
I would be in total agreement here if everyone else didnt have acess to medkits, stims and adrenals some of which are better then the reusable ones I use... mine are just cheap . Again I want to see changes to but cant help but feel alot of it is people in lower levels feeling weak. I did too but once I got close to and passed 30 I felt more the way I thought the class should. I'm specced Immortal, I do know my friend who is a Marauder depends on quinn 100% would like to see them get a little help.

Despraci's Avatar


Despraci
12.24.2011 , 10:09 PM | #43
Coming from level 42... it only gets worse. I can't even solo my class quest at a level 42 Jugg. The OP has a lot of valid points which I agree with. Not going to say that I am going to whine and quit.... I will soldier on just so I can say I leveled a jugg back before duel spec or they improved it and made it easier.

But personal opinion... one of the worst classes I ever played. I spent 20% of my time dead on the ground or running back from the med center. Another 20% reclearing the crap that killed me the first time and 10% trying to figure out where I can quest and not die.
Despraci Desp - Jedi
I'be Havoc - Bounty Hunter / Pistoleer
Noft - Master Dancer / Muscian and ran the AV automated Jedi grind group.
And a freebie 3rd slot that was a shipwright and just stopped caring about the game thanks to NGE.

boba_dan's Avatar


boba_dan
12.24.2011 , 10:52 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Yori View Post
I would be in total agreement here if everyone else didnt have acess to medkits, stims and adrenals some of which are better then the reusable ones I use... mine are just cheap .
Oh, I thought you had access to something special/improved through it, like WoW mixology or the like. I don't really know how any of the craft professions outside of artifice work yet

That said, my commentary includes obvious consumable usage, and my 'Go ahead and prove you easily solo 2x elites @ level' challenge stands even with a medkit. I still call shenanigans on a lot of the people coming in here and talking big on how little trouble they're having. Its clear they're doing just that: talking big, while some of us try to discuss it seriously.

As a counterexample, I've done some heroic 2+ missions solo as veng with Quinn, for example most of the Nar Shadaa ones. I did these at probably 4 levels overlevel as it was 'end of planet cleanup' - and even then, for many pulls I had to resort to things like killing one mob and then leaving my companion while I run out of the area, then returning, etc. I was able to do some 2-elite pulls (there's a pair of those big robots in the Holowan Labs hallway you can't duck around), but this is at several levels over the mobs. On the other hand, I also got /totally pasted/ by the first Champion Aspirant I fought on the way to Vengean when I had Jaesa out instead of Quinn. Really, its just ridiculous that you can get crushed that easily by a single elite.

I understand Quinn being a necessity if you want to reduce having to stop and channel, or if you want to do extra-hard things like multi-pulls or heroics, but what's not reasonable is Quinn being a necessity just to avoid accidental deaths. They happen /very/ easily without him in the higher levels as a DPS Jug.

Despraci's Avatar


Despraci
12.24.2011 , 11:12 PM | #45
Coming from level 42... it only gets worse. I can't even solo my class quest at a level 42 Jugg. The OP has a lot of valid points which I agree with. Not going to say that I am going to whine and quit.... I will soldier on just so I can say I leveled a jugg back before duel spec or they improved it and made it easier.

But personal opinion... one of the worst classes I ever played. I spent 20% of my time dead on the ground or running back from the med center. Another 20% reclearing the crap that killed me the first time and 10% trying to figure out where I can quest and not die.
Despraci Desp - Jedi
I'be Havoc - Bounty Hunter / Pistoleer
Noft - Master Dancer / Muscian and ran the AV automated Jedi grind group.
And a freebie 3rd slot that was a shipwright and just stopped caring about the game thanks to NGE.

Yori's Avatar


Yori
12.24.2011 , 11:15 PM | #46
Yea, again like I said I'm Immortal spec I have no idea how the dps specs do never tried them so can't really comment on them. Only really played this and BH Mercenary so far.

Noth's Avatar


Noth
12.24.2011 , 11:23 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Yori View Post
Yea, again like I said I'm Immortal spec I have no idea how the dps specs do never tried them so can't really comment on them. Only really played this and BH Mercenary so far.
Honestly, immortal spec is face roll easy. DPS spec quickly becomes like pulling your own teeth.
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Nyarlathotep's Avatar


Nyarlathotep
12.25.2011 , 12:15 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Betabane View Post
Working as intended in my eyes, get your friend to Force Choke/Dehabilitate whatever and active your ability. Teamplay is key.
Knowing what the **** you are talking about is also key. It's not that we can't force choke then pommel strike them (which we can if we spec for it) it is that the abilities (pommel strike and savage kick) do not function against elite level mobs / players, at all. So kindly save your very helpful comments for something.. else, please.

boba_dan's Avatar


boba_dan
12.25.2011 , 12:17 AM | #49
I wouldn't say its pulling teeth, its not faceroll but its mostly-ok into the low 30s with solid DPS and reasonable survival.

As you approach and pass 40, it seems like they mobs really start hitting harder and that your survivability hasn't kept up without imm talents. Quesh might have been the first planet I noticed it on? They could probably fix it pretty easily by baking a bit more of the basic mitigation into armor class rather than putting so much in Soresu.

Mokilok's Avatar


Mokilok
12.25.2011 , 04:21 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Aethyriel View Post
You gotta give BW some time here... they were never good at balancing anything at all, remember Arcane Warriors in DA:O soloing with autoattack through hardcore or whatever? Soldierclass in ME with 90% immunity while the Adepts skills didn't work at all as long as the target had shields/armor/barriers? I could go on and on and point out thousands of balancing issues in any of their games, but I guess I don't need to, most probably know.

Right now they have the exact same approach to class design as Blizz had it back on release with WoW (remember Paladins twohitting critters etc/onehitting worldbosses). They think of a ability, find it cool or fun and just give it to someone without considering the impact and not taking a look at other classes/speccs and their counterpart. Like every range class in the game, sometimes meleeclasses all have pushbacks etc which is just one big pain in the *** for a pure meleeclass with only 1 ability on a 12/9 sec cd to get close again.

They have so many knockbacks that just frustrate the living sith out of people being kicked of platforms etc... they just don't think, same with those skills, completely situational, no real bonus using them/building up to them, even dependant on enemytype, but the types you can hit with it aren't worth using the skill on.

There are so many design flaws an experienced mmo player finds without searching that it is quite worrying. The talent trees alone are bad design, too few choices, no real choices at that, 31 point must have skills for the spec to work etc... should've taken a very good look at Rifts Soultree system, best thing I've ever seen, almost every single dmg spec is within 5% of each other and if that changes, they fix it within 1-2 weeks max.

They also failed at scaling mobdmg to average marauder mitigation skills, it's insane that you lose 20% life just charging into a group of enemies and it's basically a race who kills who first, so little control, absolutely unnecessary tactis you have to abuse like letting your comp draw aggro, than charge, tap through 2-3 enemies interrupting and stunning them, you can't even use your passive heal as annhilator properly, because bleeds take way too long to be applied, with the other two steps you don't even have that luxury and still you get hit for about 800 dmg by some random "strong" mob at lv 40.

Further they designed 95% of all grps to be spread out ranged dmg dealers, so further dmg inc for pure melee while our cleave ability kills very weak enemies, but nothing else.
Don't get me wrong though, I like the class, but it is a big difference between playing solo (very hectic, sometimes frustrating when some BH passes you by and just ***** two elitemobs with no problem at all while you gotta use your short cds to survive the strong mob) and playing in a grp with a tank and/or healer where you don't have to worry and can unleash all your skills and do very nice dps.

But, as I said, they need to fix soloplay, increasing our parry chance would be an idea (making us a light fighting type, dodging/counterattacking... acrobatic), give us a lifeleech ability instead of heals on dotcrtis (srsly that's just too random), give us a little control over ranged grps, how about some force pulling action maybe, possibly a short term retaliatelike ability sending ranged attacks back to the attacker (we've all seen it in the movies, just block it in PVP), get rid of savage kick and all crap like that filling your bars with random stuff you use once every blue moon if you feel like seeing a "big" number on the screen, reevaluate rage cost in order to ensure a smoother rotation or prioritylist (would be better) and do not have incredibly stupid randomprocc-bases abilites.

Take a look at the talenttrees again and make them more fun to specc into, having your dot dmg increased by an amazing 6% (!) over 3 levels from 36-39 is not fun, really not, no excitement there and many talents work that way. Marauder is a very cool and fun class to play, or better said.. it could be, but these flaws need to be dealt with, maybe other classes except BH have problems too, I don't know, only played my marauder so far and a friends BH and a lot of people surely won't have the patience to sit around and wait for balance for 1-2 years when there are too perfectly balanced PVE games out there with lots of content.

PS: Vote for Savage kick to work as our interrupt, it's a shame an animation like that is used for something so completey useless.
PPS: Ranted more than intended, but I really wonder if they are even aware of how far away from being finished the classes are only for the leveling process which ends in a few days for a great number of people...I really wonder.
I really hope this dude isn't trying to imply that wow is perfectly balanced.
Lawl.