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Dear BioWare: Females of the Species Do Exist

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Dear BioWare: Females of the Species Do Exist

BuriDogshin's Avatar


BuriDogshin
10.17.2014 , 05:34 PM | #181
Quote: Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
Does clothing even show on Treek, such that it would visibly matter?
No. That's why I said it didn't matter much.
Going Preferred January 31, 2015.

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
10.17.2014 , 05:36 PM | #182
Quote: Originally Posted by BuriDogshin View Post
And this is precisely the issue I have with the 12x XP Class Mission marketing material: the examples given for every single class are males. That's stupid marketing, not only because it fails to appeal to female gamers who want to run female characters, but also because it fails to appeal to male gamers that like to run female characters. (e.g. "Because if I am going to watch the backside of my toon all day, I'd rather watch a female backside.")

Why are they selling the game so short? There's plenty of great artwork out there they could have used instead. Even in-game stuff, like Satele Shan as the iconic Consular, and Darth Marr as the iconic Warrior.
Well if you are so upset, why aren't you voting with your $? Could it be that it actually does not really bother you all that much?

BuriDogshin's Avatar


BuriDogshin
10.17.2014 , 05:36 PM | #183
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
No, it does not. What shows is her appearance item. Which is why it would never have occurred to be to try to see if she could equip female only clothing in the first place.
I have some of the Dancer outfits unlocked in collections, and wanted non-Legacy shells for gearing Treek up.
That's when I discovered the limitation. Wound up putting her in Casual Vandal instead (also unlocked).
Going Preferred January 31, 2015.

BuriDogshin's Avatar


BuriDogshin
10.17.2014 , 05:38 PM | #184
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
Well if you are so upset, why aren't you voting with your $? Could it be that it actually does not really bother you all that much?
So, are you suggesting that people happy with the game but critical of BW's marketing should unsubscribe?

Or are you just trolling?
Going Preferred January 31, 2015.

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
10.17.2014 , 05:41 PM | #185
Quote: Originally Posted by BuriDogshin View Post
So, are you suggesting that people happy with the game but critical of BW's marketing should unsubscribe?
If they are really that unhappy with some aspect of the game, of course. Impotently raging on the forums helps them vent, I suppose.

If you dislike "aspect X" of the game, yet continue to subscribe, why should BWEA bother to make any changes? You're obviously content to keep giving them your money.

Quote:
Or are you just trolling?
No. Are you?

BuriDogshin's Avatar


BuriDogshin
10.17.2014 , 05:46 PM | #186
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
No. Are you?
Oh please, be honest. What other explanation is there for your consistent mis-characterization of other people's posts, other than that you live under a bridge and have a fear of goats?
Going Preferred January 31, 2015.

robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
10.17.2014 , 05:50 PM | #187
Quote: Originally Posted by BuriDogshin View Post
What does in-game character creation have to do with a critique of SWTOR marketing material that said material may lead people to believe, falsely, that the game does not allow you to create female characters?

If you are trying to argue with an assertion that SWTOR is biased against female characters, you are arguing with a strawman of your own invention. What differences there are IMO are relatively minor (e.g. female toons only having one romance option, whereas some male toons have two) or a result of culture-imposed limitations (e.g. no totally bare chests for females, and males cannot where the skimpy Dancer outfits*).

*Note that Treek, tho female, also cannot where "female-only" clothing. Not that it matters, just an interesting ... bug?
Quote:
Dear Sirs, I want to bring to your attention that majority of the human population is female in gender. Please, consider to remember that when designing for SWTOR and other games. Been playing since 1997, and got used to being shafted each and every time. However, the gender being completely excluded as even one token option for a potential class Protagonist is the whole next level of being ignored as a part of a player base.

EDIT: Holy crow. Sorry, sorry, sorry folks!

I know it is wiser and more mature to say it doesn't matter, but today something about it got to me. I apologize for sour-grapes.

I was wrong and blew it out of proportions. I am also glad people stuck up for BioWARE, it's nice.

The only thing I am going to object to is attributing criticism of non-Player characters (Satele or Zash, etc) to me; it was not the intent. I meant the Protagonist and the Protagonist only i.e. the Player Character portrayal in that article about the classes and class stories.

I wish I had a chance to apologize before it dragged people into 10+ pages of old-fashioned flamefest, and I am particularly sorry to anyone who got the collateral damage by association.
Here's the OP for your perusal. It was such a big deal that the OP posted an apology for posting it in the first place. So you're not represented enough? Again, however, you cherry pick to comment on what you want to comment on. Even when game companies do it, they don't do it "right". This is very much a non issue that is being blown out of proportion since, the people that can contribute to this forum know damn good and well that they can play a female if they choose to. If I see marketing online about a game, and I'm the least bit curious, I go to Google and youtube looking it up. So if I were to go to either place, I wouldn't find any information about whether or not there's a female protagonist? Wouldn't the main initial draw to this game, for the majority of people that may be interested in it, be that it's Star Wars?

How many MMOs out there don't have gender selection for the protagonist? Of the 6 installed on this rig, they all do, and they vary wildly in development teams, from an older Korean Grinder to Neverwinter. So maybe continue your agenda about how "The Man" is keeping you down someplace where it's relevant? Because clearly, in the MMO market, it's irrelevant. The real issue isn't that females aren't included, it's the "I didn't see one, so I'm going to assume they don't exist and will continue to claim I'm discriminated against because they didn't show a picture that I could nitpick about **** size or clothing, or the way she walks in an MMO, where I know damn good and well that female PCs are possible".

Kryand's Avatar


Kryand
10.17.2014 , 05:53 PM | #188
Quote: Originally Posted by BuriDogshin View Post
And you know this how? I didn't see any mention of that in the blog post or anywhere else from BW.
Just because it is poorly done artwork, that doesn't mean it was concept artwork. Or that they did not pay for it.
Musco said it on today's stream. That's art that they had literally lying around somewhere for years. He doesn't even know where it came from. It may have even been from before the game came out.
entering swtor afterlife aka other games aka heaven

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
10.17.2014 , 05:54 PM | #189
Quote: Originally Posted by BuriDogshin View Post
Oh please, be honest. What other explanation is there for your consistent mis-characterization of other people's posts, other than that you live under a bridge and have a fear of goats?
Your erroneous characterizatrion of my posts as mischaracterizing others' posts leads me to believe that in fact you are trolling.

BuriDogshin's Avatar


BuriDogshin
10.17.2014 , 06:06 PM | #190
Quote: Originally Posted by robertthebard View Post
Here's the OP for your perusal. It was such a big deal that the OP posted an apology for posting it in the first place.
I'm not the OP. You are responding to my posts, not the OPs. Or didn't you notice that?

You complain about alleged "cherry picking" from your posts, and then bring in third-party postings as if I have some responsibility for them? Geez, how desperate are you to avoid admitting you've lost the argument?

The selection of all-male images to represent the SWTOR class options for use in BW's 12x XP Event marketing was stupid. Inexcusably stupid: the art being free does not excuse it (better free artwork exists and includes female characters), and having the art lying around for years does not excuse it (it is actually a good reason to NOT use it).

It's because I like this game that I am critical of such incompetent marketing of it. If you like this game, do you really think that artwork does it justice? Compared to, for example, the fan art that's out there? Or even the in-game graphics of the better-looking NPCs ?
Going Preferred January 31, 2015.