Ideas to balance the overpowerd assassins, and madness sorcerers.

Reflecting a thermal det is huge since its crits over 6k.

And reflecting or saberwarding a railshot is easy. You watch for the PPA proc (or listen for the rather distinctive laugh that accompanies the proc.) The pyro will be railshotting the next global. When you see the proc wait about half a global then hit Ward/reflect, and the majority of the time laugh that the railshot that that failed. One of the things about pyro is that the heat management is tied to railshot which means you can't afford to hold a railshot for more than a global.

Another way to predict railshots is to count globals, the railshot will be proc'ed the third global after the last railshot, and likely fired on the very next global.

Thermals crit for around 5k on my Jugg, when they do. It's true that losing a 6k hit is big, but it's not like even half of them crit, losing a Rail Shot is much worse than losing a thermal.

When I play my PT in Pyro spec, I almost never get rail shot parried, even less reflected. I don't know how predictable the opponents you face might be, but I personally find that using RS right after it procs is somewhat stupidly predictable and not necessary. It's not like you'll get another RS in the next 3 globals anyways, I wouldn't go as far as saying that the heat management is gonna go to hell if you don't use RS the second it procs, it's not the end of the world to replace 1 flame burst with a rapid shots, especially if you're not in 4m range.

It's not like it's an uphill DPS race for the Pyro, far from it actually and Flame Burst with its retardedly high crit chance is a much better "filler" (though it isn't really one) than those of a Jugg.

Anyways, I say we just drop this debate. It seems we both have our opinions and seeing how we continuously back them up I don't think we'll ever finish one day. And I'm getting somewhat tired of arguing tbh xD

you are still taking what i said about fluff damage to seriously. yes i said they are capable of fluff damage, yes i said most of the high dps madness players are fluffing, no i did not say they are a fluff spec. the fact you said i dont play either spec clearly tells me you dont read or only read what you want to read and hear. on my server most of the sorcs are decent (at least the ones i get into regs/ranked with. pot5 as well). most of the people going up against the sorcs are horrendous. i am fairly inexperienced with the sorc version yes, but i can tell you i know what they are capable of. the fact that you are think they are hard to shut down is cute. im a *********** deception sin, ill be on them and force them in their bubble faster then they can dot me. oh looked they dotted me, thats cute, force shroud. oh you bubble is gone, your dead. the good ones wont be too far from a healer but, oddly enough, neither am i. all that dot damage? meet a sorc bubble/force shroud? oh you got away? let me force stealth, reset recklessness and reopen on your squishy ***. oh your god bubble is gone? too bad for you.

i also dont know why you are arguing with me, im making a case for you sorcs. you guys dont need a nerf, slightly tuned a different way, yes. but no need to cry op of nerf nao.

i guess you guys want to be nerfed judging how defensive you are getting?

last thing i'll say in this thread. the only people i ever hear in any of my guilds or on the server complain about sorcs are the people that still try to face tank them like they did in the days of old, i.e. the people that dont want to learn to adapt.

iunno. if you can't face tank a sorc, what can you face tank? I mean...it's supposed to be the most fragile class in the game, no? (actually, no. cuz armor rating means next to nothing in this game but still. lol)

^this

I don't know if that guy is an experienced sorc (I'm guessing not) but most of the qq about sorc seems to come from melee players. Specifically because there's more ranged in their warzones.

When there's more melee do I call for nerfs? No.

Nothing wrong with the sorc ac, this qq is just funny to me.

They are the most fragile class in the game. Focus them, force them to barrier then wait 5 seconds do it again. It's not rocket science. Hell if your a merc you don't even have to do that.

Not sure why people have trouble killing sage or sorc tbh, just need to think a bit more these days than in previous patches. Kiting is good 1v1, but they cannot handle multiple classes since their defences are tied to their force resources. This is why they were given barrier in the first place, because everyone used to focus them because it was easy. Now it's not as easy, you have to actually think about what cool downs they have used, if they have use their force speed or whatever, and when to time your leaps and pulls, not really a big deal if you are smart enough.

The class is still very dependent on movement for defence and Los, so a smart player realises and tells the team to stop the high damage dot class from doing it's job. Weaknesses are still the same.

It's can't 1 v 1 every class either, so not sure why some people think they are unkillable. Good sorc are formidable but that gos for a lot of players on a lot of classes.

Lastly most sorc are terrible anyway, but reading through a lot of the sorc qq (remove the 50% snare is the latest bandwagon, a channeled move which you have to be stationary to cast..) I'm starting to think there's a lot of terrible melee players on some of these servers. I certainly don't think sorc are a big deal on all my melee classes but maybe that's because I have played a sorc for years and a lot of these newbie sorc don't understand the class very well.

I dunno I just think people have forgotten that focusing sorc still works really well, especially for melee.

Having too many of any ac is a warzone is not a reason to nerf them, that's for sure. That's a matchmaking issue.

Can we leave sorcs alone for once and especially madness as it is the only viable spec they have for ranked? Take that and you will force the remaining 50% of the population to play the skank healing hybrid and then you will see real tears.

Besides, class balance is pretty close at the moment... so when sorcs were underdogs for a long time their defence was to learn their class to the best they can... of course now with balance between classes they will appear too strong to people that were used to be carried by their classes... raise your skill and l2p, your class is fine.