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Guild Strongholds have serious disadvantages.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Strongholds
Guild Strongholds have serious disadvantages.

nerdofprey's Avatar


nerdofprey
08.26.2014 , 07:13 AM | #1
When details of the Galactic Strongholds expansion started to emerge, my small guild got very excited. Not about the flagships, not the conquest, not even player housing. We wanted a guild stronghold. That was all we really cared about. This option would give us an opportunity to create something together that would show our spirit to the rest of the community.

We knew the cost would be many times more than a personal one, and we were fine with it. For the past week we have been gathering up millions of credits and collecting hundreds of decorations, all to put in the guild bank. Our free Sky Palaces were nothing more than a testing ground for what would be our masterpiece: A magnificent guild stronghold on Tatooine.

Then, finally, amid much rejoicing, we unlocked that stronghold.

It was kind of a letdown!

Guild strongholds have exactly one advantage: More than one person can place decorations. That's cool, but that is IT. That's EVERYTHING you get for the enormous cost, and for the serious disadvantages of a guild stronghold.

What disadvantages?

#1 - The name of it is not customizable AT ALL.
In several of the developers' live streams, explaining the features of strongholds, it was very explicitly stated that guild strongholds, like flagships, could be named. Very explicitly stated, multiple times. As it turns out, not only is that completely untrue, but guild strongholds don't even benefit from the "label" mechanic of personal ones. You can't choose an "owner" or set it up as a "Temple of Darkness" or any of that cool stuff. You get "Headquarters: (guild name)" and that is IT. Huge, huge disappointment.

#2 - You can not give keys of any level to non guild members.
Is this a bug? Some mechanic we haven't figured out? I don't know... but this appears to be the case. Forget about giving your friends in other guilds access to the place. With your personal one, anybody on your faction can be given a key. You can pick and choose exactly who has what level of access, with no guild restrictions. With your permission, a friend in another guild can go to your place and invite their friends, even if you're not online. One personal stronghold could thus become a 24/7 hotspot for your entire server! Did your whole guild go to sleep? No problem! Somebody else can keep it running. With a guild stronghold, people outside your guild have to take their chances with the public listings and hope one of you is online. Oh, except...

#3 - By default, your publicly-listed guild stronghold does not show up in public listings.
Maybe I'm stupid, but it took me a couple days to figure out how to find the guild strongholds on there. You have to use a hidden drop-down menu at the top of the screen and filter your search by either personal or guild. By default it shows only the personal ones. There's no "both" option. Most people who are just casually clicking around looking for places to visit probably won't think to change their settings to track you down. You probably won't get a lot of visitors!

#4 - You don't get your decorations.
By now most people have figured out that unlocking decorations for yourself doesn't let your guild use them. It's a little frustrating, but if you pay attention you know what's up with that, and you know how to donate stuff to your guild. Guess what you can't ever donate, though? Companions! With a personal stronghold, you can hop around on all your alts, on both factions, and place their companions in any combination. Sure, they turn into holograms when you switch characters, and are occasionally naked, but at least they're there. Your guild stronghold gets none of them, ever. Not even a lousy naked hologram.

(edit: this part wasn't right!)

You also lose the fluidity that you have with your personal decorations, being able to move them from one planet to another according to your whims, and the security that those items will be with you even if your guild situation should change. You have a lot of options with your personal decorations that you never will when you donate it to your guild.

It's clear after messing around with these systems for a week that guild strongholds were an afterthought, and that their mechanics are unfinished at best. After paying out the wazoo for the mega-expensive version of the exact same freaking building, you actually LOSE significant features.

Before you buy, it's a good idea to weigh all of this against the awesome power of more than one person placing decorations.

The Tatooine stronghold is great, and we're kinda stuck with the place now that we spent all the credits in the universe on it. I really hope that some of these things will be addressed, and soon, so that it does not become a great regret in our lives.
Uftax "The Brute"
Vice President - Mantellian Outlaw Element Swoop Club
moe.enjin.com

Nemarus's Avatar


Nemarus
08.26.2014 , 09:57 AM | #2
This is all very good info. Thanks for the warning. Hopefully BioWare can ease some of these restrictions and disadvantages.
Shayd / Callem / RK-4X / "Trynt" - Leader of <Eclipse Squadron>, The Ebon Hawk
http://EclipseSquadron.enjin.com Imperial GSF-focused guild

"Serve the Emperor above all others."

nerdofprey's Avatar


nerdofprey
08.26.2014 , 02:06 PM | #3
If we could name it, and if people who opened up the public listing screen could - by default - see that name among the listings, that would go a long way toward justifying the cost.

The cost of a guild stronghold is absolutely absurd, too. The cost of fully unlocking a personal stronghold on Tatooine with every expansion is less than half of the initial unlock cost, with no expansions, of the guild version. And for that we lose features.
Uftax "The Brute"
Vice President - Mantellian Outlaw Element Swoop Club
moe.enjin.com

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
08.26.2014 , 06:56 PM | #4
I think the rename option should exist for all strongholds, but it should AT LEAST exist for guild strongholds IMO. I also think having the ability to invite others outside of your guild (especially if you are recruiting) and having it listed in some primary way instead of buried in a menu are also required changes IMO.

ScarletBlaze's Avatar


ScarletBlaze
08.26.2014 , 10:26 PM | #5
Trophies can be purchased for the guild. Three of my members have done so. They range in price depending on the items. A guild member even purchased the statue on the collections edition for the guild.
A southern girl is a girl who knows full well that she can open a door for herself but prefers for the gentleman to do it because it demonstrates a sense of respect. Guild Roleplays: http://republicexplorerscorp.enjin.com/activity
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nerdofprey's Avatar


nerdofprey
08.27.2014 , 01:24 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by ScarletBlaze View Post
Trophies can be purchased for the guild. Three of my members have done so. They range in price depending on the items. A guild member even purchased the statue on the collections edition for the guild.
I was wrong about that part. Must have been looking at the wrong part of the interface last time I tried it. I corrected the post. I'd love to be proven wrong about all the rest!
Uftax "The Brute"
Vice President - Mantellian Outlaw Element Swoop Club
moe.enjin.com

Kunda's Avatar


Kunda
08.27.2014 , 01:31 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by nerdofprey View Post
In several of the developers' live streams, explaining the features of strongholds, it was very explicitly stated that guild strongholds, like flagships, could be named. Very explicitly stated, multiple times.
I agree that Guild Strongholds were pretty poorly implemented. They should have been identical in cost of personal strongholds given that their layout and functionality is essentially identical. However, I don't recall ever hearing BioWare state during one of the Stronghold streams that Guild Strongholds would have customizable names, only Flagships.

DataBeaver's Avatar


DataBeaver
08.27.2014 , 08:42 AM | #8
Valid points, except this:
Quote: Originally Posted by nerdofprey View Post
You also lose the fluidity that you have with your personal decorations, being able to move them from one planet to another according to your whims, and the security that those items will be with you even if your guild situation should change. You have a lot of options with your personal decorations that you never will when you donate it to your guild.
You can move decorations between the guild's stronghold(s) and flagship just fine. Or maybe you personally can't if your guildmaster hasn't granted you a gold key. But since it's a guild stronghold, you can't really expect it to be decorated according to your whims alone, now can you? And wouldn't it be a bit unfair if half of the decorations were removed just because the biggest contributor decides to leave the guild? If you donate money to a charity, do you expect to get it back if you decide to switch to a different charity?

While a collaborative stronghold where everyone is responsible for his or her own items might be an interesting experiment, I think the current model is ultimately better for creating an attractive guild stronghold. If you want a personal stronghold, you should create a personal stronghold.

nerdofprey's Avatar


nerdofprey
08.27.2014 , 08:10 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Kunda View Post
I don't recall ever hearing BioWare state during one of the Stronghold streams that Guild Strongholds would have customizable names, only Flagships.
To be fair, I don't think that was officially "announced" as a feature. It was actually kind of maddening how little official information about guild strongholds was available before launch. For that reason, I paid really close attention to every word out of their mouths when those videos came out, and made careful note of any tidbits related to guild strongholds. When people asked if strongholds could be named, they said: guild strongholds and flagships, not personal ones. The question came up a few times and that answer was consistent. Maybe the people saying it were mistaken, or maybe it was planned but scrapped before launch. Maybe I missed the time where they said "we changed our minds about that." In any case, my guild expected naming and didn't get it, and it was a huge disappointment. It's one of the features we assumed would justify the cost.

Quote: Originally Posted by DataBeaver View Post
Valid points, except this:

You can move decorations between the guild's stronghold(s) and flagship just fine. Or maybe you personally can't if your guildmaster hasn't granted you a gold key. But since it's a guild stronghold, you can't really expect it to be decorated according to your whims alone, now can you? And wouldn't it be a bit unfair if half of the decorations were removed just because the biggest contributor decides to leave the guild? If you donate money to a charity, do you expect to get it back if you decide to switch to a different charity?

While a collaborative stronghold where everyone is responsible for his or her own items might be an interesting experiment, I think the current model is ultimately better for creating an attractive guild stronghold. If you want a personal stronghold, you should create a personal stronghold.
I'm not talking about some kind of missing or broken feature in that case. I'm getting into the philosophy of it. I understand why they did it, and I don't really disagree. I'm talking about the things you sacrifice by choosing a guild stronghold over a personal one - justifiably or not - and that's one of them. It's a major one. It would indeed be unfair for somebody to leave a guild and take guild decorations with them... but what if you're the one who contributed half the decorations, and you leave the guild? You would lose all of it.

I'm not saying that's wrong, I'm just saying it's kind of a big consideration. If you get a decoration that's worth millions, where do you put it? Share it for today, or keep it forever? In a very real sense, this system pits you against your own guild in the competition for resources and rewards.

Stuff that you can actually pay to donate from your own collection is great, because you get it AND the guild gets it, without having to buy two - which could cost a fortune. Unfortunately this does not apply to most big-ticket decorations.

And yes, you can move stuff between guild strongholds / flagships, but my point is that you can't look at something in your own house and say "that would look better in the guild's base" and move it there. Well, not with most things. Ultimately, if you're a guild leader and you buy a guild stronghold, you won't have nearly the flexibility with decorations that you would by simply passing out keys for a personal stronghold to your friends.

For an example, my guild has a secondary "guild base" that's just one guy's house for which we all got a key. If we want to "donate" stuff to that stronghold, we mail it to him. If we want it placed in a certain way, we suggest that to him. It's really amazing how flawlessly this system is working, and it became clear pretty quickly that we could have done the exact same thing on Tatooine. We would have saved tens of millions of credits and actually gained some extra functionality. There's almost no disadvantage to doing it that way.

Consider this: If you have a cross-faction guild setup (as we do) it's easy for the owner of a personal stronghold to log on with a cross-faction alt and hand out keys to your whole guild on the other side, too, and then your alts from both factions have 24-hour access. There's no way to do that with a guild stronghold.
Uftax "The Brute"
Vice President - Mantellian Outlaw Element Swoop Club
moe.enjin.com

nerdofprey's Avatar


nerdofprey
08.27.2014 , 11:39 PM | #10
OK, some repeated testing has revealed some amazing guild stronghold facts:

You definitely can not give a key to anyone outside the guild, regardless of faction. This restriction doesn't apply to personal ones.

You can't "invite" anybody of the opposite faction.

Your guild stronghold does not show up in the opposite faction's public listings regardless of your settings. We even tried setting our republic-side guild stronghold to empire-only, and imperial players still couldn't see it.

This means the faction setting on a guild stronghold literally does nothing!

There is no game mechanic to allow the other faction to visit your guild stronghold at all. This restriction doesn't apply to personal ones.
Uftax "The Brute"
Vice President - Mantellian Outlaw Element Swoop Club
moe.enjin.com