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Fix Gunships, until then i quit.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Fix Gunships, until then i quit.

Calsetes's Avatar


Calsetes
08.22.2014 , 07:56 AM | #31
Alright, I played two matches of GSF last night. Regular all-out dogfights, I'm hit-or-miss. That Domination style match? I defended a node and pretty much made it "my house." Scout tried to come in? Dead. Fighter? Dead.

Two gunships - or actually, the same one twice - tried to take me out. I frequently do nothing more than slowly circle the node really close to it while hitting tab and looking at where it's directing my target and their range, so I was able to spot them before they could snipe me. Both times, I flew straight towards the gunship with all power diverted to shields and locked on with my missiles. Both times, I blew them up without them blowing me up. I was badly hurt since they only got a shot from their main cannon off, but I survived and went back to the node to get fixed up.

Taking on a gunship with a scout vehicle is possible. You just have to play chicken with them and be ready to gamble it all on a crazy maneuver.
The average person thinks he isn't.
-Anonymous

Kcin_Trebla's Avatar


Kcin_Trebla
08.22.2014 , 10:02 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Calsetes View Post
Taking on a gunship with a scout vehicle is possible. You just have to play chicken with them and be ready to gamble it all on a crazy maneuver.
Sure, if you have a scout pimped up heavily and you face a standard-equipped gunship.
On my experience a pimped-gunship is capable of 1-shot-1-kill poor standard scouts and that shouldn't be possible with any weapon at max level.
Anyway I see the problem in another way: gunship=camping; bomber=mines/drones-pooping. Actually this is what fails the gameplay. Star Wars was always seen as an icon of frenetic and crazy space battles now here reduced in camping and mine/drone fielding. Again I ask: why in the space they come out with the idea of rail-guns and bombers in these scenarios we have? Really I know the answer: money. Pay for this thing (horrible even to see) and you'll win 75% of times. Ok, I can see the point and even understand it but please create some scenarios for bombers and such and don't pretend to treat them like fighters in what we have now. Or just redesign them (impossible even to thing as people spent money for those things and they will blame heaven and hell if something is changed)...
Anyway I'll keep playing those battles even if I win 1 game over 15 or 20, no matter: I can use the conquest points anyway.
Something for the gameplay should be done though. My proposal? Remove rail-guns, Lower evasion to 0.00 to standing-still-camping ships no matter of any bonus they can have and remove bombers for those scenarios we have now and implement some bombing scenarios where everything could be more then a field of drones/mines.

Calsetes's Avatar


Calsetes
08.22.2014 , 12:26 PM | #33
I think my scout ship only has a few things added to it that aren't standard "straight out of the box" items, and only a few things have that first upgrade level bought. Like, I bought those 10k range homing torpedoes for it since I like those things. Think I have rapid-fire blasters, also. Don't know if anything else was significantly upgraded, but it's pretty much a basic vanilla fighter (I did very few matches of GSF total - maybe 12? With 6 wins, 6 losses?)

It could also be that I got lucky against someone who wasn't very good with a gunship yet, or I had a dead old wizard talking to me while playing. Damn my audible hallucinations!


Edit: Meant "basic vanilla scout ship." Not a fighter. I've noticed I don't do too well with the fighter ship - I need the speed of the scout to really excel, as I use mostly hit-and-run and "gang up on someone else" tactics. I get a missile lock? I barrel roll (if possible) and gun it the hell out of Dodge. Plus, tweaking your power settings helps - I almost always run in full shields mode, unless I'm "objective running," when I throw it all to my engines.
The average person thinks he isn't.
-Anonymous

Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
08.22.2014 , 12:32 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Kcin_Trebla View Post
Sure, if you have a scout pimped up heavily and you face a standard-equipped gunship.
On my experience a pimped-gunship is capable of 1-shot-1-kill poor standard scouts and that shouldn't be possible with any weapon at max level.
Anyway I see the problem in another way: gunship=camping; bomber=mines/drones-pooping. Actually this is what fails the gameplay. Star Wars was always seen as an icon of frenetic and crazy space battles now here reduced in camping and mine/drone fielding. Again I ask: why in the space they come out with the idea of rail-guns and bombers in these scenarios we have? Really I know the answer: money. Pay for this thing (horrible even to see) and you'll win 75% of times. Ok, I can see the point and even understand it but please create some scenarios for bombers and such and don't pretend to treat them like fighters in what we have now. Or just redesign them (impossible even to thing as people spent money for those things and they will blame heaven and hell if something is changed)...
Anyway I'll keep playing those battles even if I win 1 game over 15 or 20, no matter: I can use the conquest points anyway.
Something for the gameplay should be done though. My proposal? Remove rail-guns, Lower evasion to 0.00 to standing-still-camping ships no matter of any bonus they can have and remove bombers for those scenarios we have now and implement some bombing scenarios where everything could be more then a field of drones/mines.
You can have one-shots on scouts, but it will require a crit, which is a 15k tier upgrade for slug railgun, and only gives a 16% chance, even if they can beat the baked-in RNG of scout evasion and maneuverability and HIT the scout. If the scout did not even both with the early 1k survivability upgrades, or was just wandering along in a straight line, I have little sympathy. Situational awareness and piloting skill will give a fair bit of immunity to railgun fire. If you get surprised with a railgun crit, well, it's not that different from getting jumped and burned down at close range when you weren't paying attention.

And a stock scout WILL shut down a gunship if properly played. There's no gunship build that can casually ignore a charging scout. Even the best close-quarters gunship, the T3, does not have immunity by class design to being shut down. Approach in a rapid corkscrew while boosting, and enter a turning fight with the gunship. Even the top gunship pilots will have a hard time hitting you with a railgun on that kind of approach pattern. Once you get within the minimum effective range of a railgun, If you're a better pilot, you are very, very, likely to kill the gunship, and almost guaranteed to prevent him from contributing meaningfully to the game until he gets help or respawns and gets back into the fight.

As for the "money" quote - you're deluded. If you want to play gunships or bombers, play the game enough to get them - if you're a subscriber, who gets coins for free, it takes at MOST one weekly's worth of matches. Do you expect to get geared in PVP or PVE after a few rounds in a WZ/operation? I have 12 maxed ships, and enough requisition to max several more, and I have never bought a single cartel coin to do it. Kindly take your pay 2 win red herring and learn 2 play.
http://fractalsponge.net
Xi'ao - The Shadowlands

Calsetes's Avatar


Calsetes
08.22.2014 , 12:40 PM | #35
That's kind of what I did with this guy, Fractal - I was "listing lazily to the left" on my approach. Plus, I managed to fire off my torpedoes and only managed to blow the ship up usually a few K from the enemy in question, like my guy opened his cockpit and shot the pilot with a handgun on his way by.

Mind you, all power diverted to shields, and me limping away in the yellow / red zones of my hull. Doable, but a razor's edge of doable - someone backing up the gunship would have found me easy pickings unless he tried shooting my rear bumper.
The average person thinks he isn't.
-Anonymous

Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
08.22.2014 , 01:10 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Calsetes View Post
That's kind of what I did with this guy, Fractal - I was "listing lazily to the left" on my approach. Plus, I managed to fire off my torpedoes and only managed to blow the ship up usually a few K from the enemy in question, like my guy opened his cockpit and shot the pilot with a handgun on his way by.

Mind you, all power diverted to shields, and me limping away in the yellow / red zones of my hull. Doable, but a razor's edge of doable - someone backing up the gunship would have found me easy pickings unless he tried shooting my rear bumper.
Stock strikes have a larger and smaller margin of error against gunships all at the same time. Larger in that they are more durable and unlikely to be oneshotted even in the stock vs mastered scenario. Smaller in that they don't have the easy access to base evasion or boost efficiency to pull the radical closing maneuvers that give you the best chance against gunships.

Was the gunship in your scenario a type2? If it were a type 1 or type 3, it's very hard to land proton because of the double missile break. They have to be under quite a bit of missile pressure or you have to finesse the approach a lot. To kill them down you do often really have to close to primary weapon range.
http://fractalsponge.net
Xi'ao - The Shadowlands

Calsetes's Avatar


Calsetes
08.22.2014 , 01:17 PM | #37
Honestly, no idea. I played a few matches of GSF when it was first released, and did two matches last night. It was a big box-like ship, that's all I know. I'm a Rep guy, so it was probably an Imp ship. No idea if that helps or not.
The average person thinks he isn't.
-Anonymous

Verain's Avatar


Verain
08.22.2014 , 02:00 PM | #38
Scouts are generally perceived as being highly effective against gunships. I will say that a gunships that will attempt to tank a scout in melee is going to get what he deserves.

I will say that as you increase the gear on your scout, you'll become very likely to deal more damage in a small window, and very likely to avoid incoming damage, but you won't really be able to take any more shots total.

In your example, you sat at a node, so you had adequate purple, blue, and yellow. When an enemy moved into position, you aggressively charged him. That's a pretty solid strat, but many of the folks that cry- in some cases logging over to try their hand at wordsmithing- normally get in a turn fight with a strike fighter away from any line of sight. They tunnel their enemy, and are beginning to win, when a gunship puts it in both holes. This angers them because they wanted to have their little solo fight, and were bothered that their total obliviousness to the rest of the map got them killed.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Calsetes's Avatar


Calsetes
08.22.2014 , 02:22 PM | #39
Yeah, I don't worry when stuff like that happens. I see the gunships as like snipers in a shooter match - if you sit in one spot and try to kill everyone without moving much, you'll be taken out yourself fairly quick. If you move, take a shot of opportunity like you described, then move to another spot, that might do better - you become harder to track and you might not top the leaderboards, but you're invaluable to your team when they get into a one-on-one fight and might be outmatched.

I try to do the same when it's a big all-out brawl - see someone fighting with another guy and just try to throw a wrench into the works, make it a sudden 2-on-1 situation. At best, we kill the guy. At worst, we drive him off to have him lick his wounds.
The average person thinks he isn't.
-Anonymous