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Upcoming Tank - What should I prepare for 50/55?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Upcoming Tank - What should I prepare for 50/55?

-Holmes's Avatar


-Holmes
08.08.2014 , 09:57 PM | #1
Welcome to my "I have no idea how to PvE so please teach me all about it" thread.

Intro:
Spoiler


Questions:
1. At endgame, would the PvP Brutalizer (tank)relics be better than the first few tiers of PvE tank relics?
2. What gear/commendations should I save up in preparation for hitting 50, and then what should I save up on in preparation for 55?
3. What is the minimum gear I would require to be able to do all SM Operations?
4. Would the gear required in Question 3 also carry me well in HM Flashpoints?
5. What would my stat priorities be? Def/Shield/Absorb?
6. Which type of Augments would be required to maintain threat and be sturdy at the same time?

Hit me with your best shot! (No, don't hit me. I bruise easily.)

Regards,
Apprentice Vandalus of The Harbinger
Rollin'dirty - Ridin'dirty
The Omgwtfbbqhax Legacy

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
08.09.2014 , 12:14 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by -Holmes View Post
1. At endgame, would the PvP Brutalizer (tank)relics be better than the first few tiers of PvE tank relics?
Yep! Brutalizer is better than everything up to Dread Master (the nightmare-mode top-tier gear). Obroan is almost as good as Dread Forged (180 rating, and the highest craftable tier). Relics are kinda special like this though. Other gear pieces are not similarly nice.

Quote: Originally Posted by -Holmes View Post
2. What gear/commendations should I save up in preparation for hitting 50, and then what should I save up on in preparation for 55?
Once you hit level 50, you can start running operations and getting classic coms, which give you Campaign Gear, as well as actual Dread Guard tokens. I would advise you to try a HM Eternity Vault/Karagga's Palace the moment you hit 50. It's really good XP (a little less than a level per operation) and it's a decent taste of what's to come. Tell the raid leader that you'll need instructions on how to tank things, but you want to practice and learn. The only problem is that a lot of the bosses in those instances can be solo tanked, and that's what they might do if they're not nice about things. Explosive Conflict is the third level 50 op, and no boss in that instance can be comfortably solo tanked, though three of the four can be solo tanked by someone over-geared and/or over-experienced for the content. Odds are, you'll get to actually do your job, and this is the lowest-level piece of content in the game which has legitimately interesting tanking mechanics. Enjoy Kephess! He's still one of my favorite bosses to tank.

It's not worth spending any money on crafting or similar at level 50. I mean, maybe buy some stuff off the GTN, spend some planetary commendations on grade 25 mods, armorings and enhancements, but overall you'll probably do just fine. Level 50 goes by quickly.

At level 55, the first thing you want to do is get someone to craft you the Veracity ear and implants that have Strength, Shield, Absorb and Defense on them (no accuracy or alacrity). They're very cheap to craft, and they'll be BiS for you until you get Dread Forged replacements (well, the Oriconian ear is good, but the implants are not). Similarly, get a set of Immunity and Sturdiness enhancements. They're very high mitigation, and better than anything you can get until Underworld (rating 168). If you want to go the easy way, you can get someone to craft you a set of 180 mods, but that will be quite expensive. Just getting some grade 28s will probably do you just fine.

Quote: Originally Posted by -Holmes View Post
3. What is the minimum gear I would require to be able to do all SM Operations?
If you can step into a level 55 zone and not get one-shot by the native plant life, you're probably fine. SM operations have very low damage and they mostly exist to introduce you to the mechanics and help you get your feet wet. Use them as such. Especially with bolster in the group finder, there really is no minimum gear requirement.

Quote: Originally Posted by -Holmes View Post
4. Would the gear required in Question 3 also carry me well in HM Flashpoints?
Yes, though there is no flashpoint bolster (ironically). The Czerka flashpoints have some bosses which hit decently hard in HM, so be careful there. They're totally tankable in almost any gear, but stillbe careful. Some healers might turn up their nose at you if your HP is too low, but that's mostly snobbish ignorance. The Czerka flashpoints are also very fun to tank in HM, so don't skip them entirely!

Quote: Originally Posted by -Holmes View Post
5. What would my stat priorities be? Def/Shield/Absorb?
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=616779

That post becomes valid once you hit level 55 (it doesn't produce accurate results sub-55). Follow the instructions in the post and look up your corresponding entry in the table. It tells you precisely how to stat your tank at any gear level.

Quote: Originally Posted by -Holmes View Post
Which type of Augments would be required to maintain threat and be sturdy at the same time?
Threat isn't something you should worry about in your gearing. That's a rotation thing. Gear is all about taking less damage. See my post above. As a guardian, chances are most of your augments will be defense.

Quote: Originally Posted by -Holmes View Post
Hit me with your best shot! (No, don't hit me. I bruise easily.)
Best of luck to you! When I first started playing the game, I didn't know anything about tanking other than what I had gleaned from watching dev walkthrough videos and reading Wikipedia. I fell in with some really great folks who patiently stuck with me while I learned the ropes and faceplanted and learned some more. I hope you have the same fortune!
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)

Loc_n_lol's Avatar


Loc_n_lol
08.09.2014 , 12:38 AM | #3
Well, KBN got all of the technical stuff out of the way, I'll just offer an opinion on level 50 content : don't bother if you don't have a premade group of nice people.
While it would definitely be a good learning ground for later content to start doing level 50 HM flashpoints and operations at level 50, what you're most likely to run into are overgeared level 55s who are out there to get their comms/mats FAST and just don't give a flying fork about you, the mechanics, or anything. You're just getting in the way of a faster completion. Having DPS who do your job better than you and get away with it is NOT fun nor interesting.

Also, recommended gear for level 55 flashpoints is 148, and 156 for SM ops (162 for dread palace). Consider the veracity implants/earpieces as way way above their displayed rating, but any level 50 gear should be upgraded asap. Basically your free gear set for the first-time completion of Oricon dailies (with the quest from the fleet and a bit of extra story padding) + 148 gear you can get for cheap on the GTN (wrists, belt, offhand, maybe implants and earpiece but veracity are much better; search the gtn for gear level 53+ of blue quality) + crafted advanced might/guardian hilt 28 for your main hand + pvp relics + start augmenting and you're good to go, at very little cost.
The Red Eclipse
Jayey - Gol'dy - Raibbach - Locnlol - Rex'Power'Colt - Ki'Sazen
Nyctis - Dre'xin - Jaegerk - Nahzeer - Pan'thera - Crystei

fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
08.09.2014 , 03:51 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Yep! Brutalizer is better than everything up to Dread Master (the nightmare-mode top-tier gear). Obroan is almost as good as Dread Forged (180 rating, and the highest craftable tier). Relics are kinda special like this though. Other gear pieces are not similarly nice.
I might have missed the post where you explained why its better to equip a brutilizer relic over a dreadforged relic.
At 1st glance I don't see a benefit for Brutilizer.

Brutilizer defense proc
94 end - 23 defense - 675 def per proc - 6 seconds duration - 20 seconds cd (well a bit more in pratice ofc)

Dreadforged defense proc
115 end - 39 defense - 740 def per proc - 6 seconds duration - 20 seconds cd (well a bit more in pratice ofc)
Progression raiding toons on the big RED
Macewindy - Sab Slinger Srh - Shadow Tank
TRE PvP toon
Ishmaldo - Sage healer

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
08.09.2014 , 04:59 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by fire-breath View Post
I might have missed the post where you explained why its better to equip a brutilizer relic over a dreadforged relic.
At 1st glance I don't see a benefit for Brutilizer.

Brutilizer defense proc
94 end - 23 defense - 675 def per proc - 6 seconds duration - 20 seconds cd (well a bit more in pratice ofc)

Dreadforged defense proc
115 end - 39 defense - 740 def per proc - 6 seconds duration - 20 seconds cd (well a bit more in pratice ofc)
He was thinking Reactive Warding probably. Which it goes:

Dread Master > Brutalizer > Arkanian (lolwut? Oh wait its glitched and double procs) > Dread Forged > Obroan

One other thing to note about being a Juggernaut. Since a significant portion of your health bar actually comes from your healers, once you have enough health to comfortably survive spike damage you should replace any armor that doesn't have the set bonus with the Might version of it (e.g. Advanced Might Armoring 34s for your belt and bracer from the ultimate commendations vendor) and your Endurance crystals for power crystals.

This has 2 benefits. First off, like every other tank in the game, you get an increase amount of threat from all your extra might. Its not much, but it helps, especially with a Juggernaut who has terrible AoE threat capabilities outside your AoE taunt.

The second benefit comes from one of your mitigation abilities! As a Juggernaut, one of your talents will make it so using Force Scream will put a barrier around you that absorbs incoming damage. This barrier actually scales off a combination of your Strength, Willpower and Power (Strength + Willpower give the same benefits, so only get will from datacrons). Your defensive cooldown "Enraged Defense" will also run off those stats.
In other words, grabbing extra power/strength over endurance ACTUALLY makes you tougher! WHO KNEW!

This is especially helpful with your augments. All augments come with either an offensive option + endurance (bad for tanks), or a defensive option + power (good for tanks, despite not getting extra health out of it). But as we established just before that power IS a defensive option for Juggernauts, it means these defensive augments will give a nice boost to your Defense, Shield or Absorb, but also a smaller, but still nice, boost to your Sonic Barrier (Force Scream damage bubble) and your Enraged Defense!
__________________________________________________
Kwerty, 55 Vanguard on The Harbinger
And others
Learn to play a DPS Vanguard with this guide.

Prototypemind's Avatar


Prototypemind
08.09.2014 , 05:04 AM | #6
Lots of good info in this thread. Two things I recommend: continue reading up here while you tank in-game, and join an active guild, be it small or large. Being in a situation where you feel comfortable while learning will help you a lot, though you never know what can happen. I ended up with my current guild through trial by fire learning to off-tank a hard mode Op.

-Holmes's Avatar


-Holmes
08.09.2014 , 06:48 AM | #7
Since the Brut relics are still at least a dew Tiers ahead of what a fresh 55 can get, I'll be sticking with those. As I said, I'm a veteran PvPer, so grinding out the PvP coms prior to reaching 55 in order to get the two relics as soon as I ding should be a piece of cake.

Also, when I said I've done a bit of PvE before, I mean I've done KP HM and EV HM back in the days when Denova was still the hardest you could do, as a tank and as a dps, and I used to regularly do my daily HM FPs back in those days as well, so I'm not entirely new to PvE, just very very far behind.

Should I invest in Augmenting the Veracity Implants/Ear or will I be able to procure Dread Forged equivalents rather soon?
Rollin'dirty - Ridin'dirty
The Omgwtfbbqhax Legacy

Prototypemind's Avatar


Prototypemind
08.09.2014 , 10:33 AM | #8
I augged everything when I first rolled this tank, but if you are grabbing up mostly 168/180 gear to start as soon as you hit 55 it wouldn't make a huge difference only having 12 out of 14 slots augged. Just principle for me now, don't really see the point in spending 72K augging just to do it again as soon as I get a better drop on my newer toons.

fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
08.10.2014 , 03:07 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by TACeMossie View Post
He was thinking Reactive Warding probably. Which it goes:

Dread Master > Brutalizer > Arkanian (lolwut? Oh wait its glitched and double procs) > Dread Forged > Obroan
I assumed this too. But teaching this to a new tank might be confusing without saying that it only counts for 1 type of relic which might get fixed eventually. I doubt they will since 3.0 is coming near.

Anyways...... for all other relics this is the order of usefulness (assuming you won't attempt getting the kelldragon relic from Tfb/Scum NiM):
Dread Master > Dread Forged > Brutalizer > Obroan > Under World > Arkanian.

Also most important behavior for you as a tank is to think for yourself when doing flashpoints or operations. This goes mainly for opening rotations and/or guarding.
During an average operation I guard about 3 or 4 different groupmembers depending who needs its most. This is including guarding my co-tank at times. Also per bossfight I sometimes swap guard once or twice.
Be prepared however to face people who think in very static ways, don't let yourself be influenced by them or when it doesn't really matter just give them what they want. In that last case don't forget to explain them why you think its not needed.

Also about the veracity implants / earpieces. Those are lv 53 implants so get them earlier if you like. I don't know about now but they used to be around 35k-60k on the TRE GTN.
Progression raiding toons on the big RED
Macewindy - Sab Slinger Srh - Shadow Tank
TRE PvP toon
Ishmaldo - Sage healer

fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
08.10.2014 , 03:13 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by -Holmes View Post
Should I invest in Augmenting the Veracity Implants/Ear or will I be able to procure Dread Forged equivalents rather soon?
Its a bit hard to tell. I personally have no issues getting DF implants / earpieces. I pug quite a good amount of DF/DP HM and one of my guilds uses suicide kings which means in our case that the 1st 6 members on the list want to save their spot on the list for other items.

Pugging for you might be harder if you don't have DF/DP HM experience since about 75% of the groups are requiring you to show them your 4/5 HM kill achievement.

TL;DR
Are you in a guild who raids quite often or can you find a spot in a puggroup than getting the implants won't be an issue. Bestia for the earpiece is slightly harder for puggroups but if you clear it the chance of getting it is good.
Progression raiding toons on the big RED
Macewindy - Sab Slinger Srh - Shadow Tank
TRE PvP toon
Ishmaldo - Sage healer