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So when are the Deathmatch cap ship guns getting turned back on?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
So when are the Deathmatch cap ship guns getting turned back on?

ALaggyGrunt's Avatar


ALaggyGrunt
08.04.2014 , 02:14 PM | #11
That's not the problem. The problem is the matchmaker somehow thinking this is a good matchup:
10 noobs who fire rapids at 20km and don't know what their engine ability is for, with one or two who know what's about to happen.
vs
The premades everyone's afraid of, with maybe one or two noobs mixed in who might be fodder if anyone ever got off their spawn.

I've played both sides of that, and it's either really boring or just plain frustrating. Yeah, yeah, find and queue a group. Easy for someone with a friends list full of aces.

Turning on the turrets would only help stop spawn mining, because the turrets wouldn't let the bombers get close and get rid of the minefields.

RatPoison's Avatar


RatPoison
08.04.2014 , 05:15 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by SammyGStatus View Post
Ratpoison, as one of the people who played the very first day to today, the death of cap ship turrets in TDMs is a freakin blessing - I can remember A LOT of matches where the losing team sat back in their little "feel good ball" on their cap ship.
Well, for starters... I love the presumptions being made from start to end... but contrary to your assumption I too... have been playing since day one.

Next, a lot of matches where the losing team sat back at their feel good ball?... No it was more likely in these matches that a few players sat back at their feel good ball and the few stragglers that ventured out were downed so quickly everybody else felt bored. I've played more than my fair share of matches and even before turrets were killed, I never, repeat, never, had a match where the entirety or even most of a team hid at their cap ships because they were getting stomped.

And what's it matter? You're going to complain about having to wait for the match to end because the score starts to only creep along? Well let's be intellectually intuitive here and make a suggestion rather than dig our heels into the ground and shake our head like a stubborn two year old.

If you're so bitter about winning a match slowly, then perhaps the suggestion, or idea to put forth is to produce a mercy rule that allows an opposing team to opt to end a match early. See... talking about a problem isn't that hard, coming up with simple solutions... not that hard. The game has an underused vote kick system from PvP that likely could be easily adapted to allow votes in game to be tallied once a score becomes lopsided (aka mercy rule) to give the expedient end you so wish.

I truly like how you end your post with, and I paraphrase, that there are much better options out there... yet where are these glorious and constructive conversations Sammy? Where are these.... --simple-- solutions that would give people the ability to play this game without being stomped due to a low player pool and consequently poor match making?

Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
Traditionnal deathmatches, are usually arenas, where you can't respawn farm, as you don't respawn. People chickening in the safe spawn area (when there's one) usually get kicked.

But in GSF deathmatches (or in any game that would get the same rule-set), It achieves nothing, because there is no difference between being attacked at spawn, and flying safely 5s before being attacked. The result is the same : you end getting farmed...
So the end result of your logic is... to hey, lets just let them spawn and die in those instants? Come on, that's not even a reasonable argument. An experienced pilot spawning into a bomber ball dies all the same as a newbie. So if you can rationalize that in traditional death matches, people get but one life and then the match resets, then it should be easy to recognize that having no reset allows camping to be a tactic. I don't think that that is an intentional design or necessarily fair, perhaps you disagree and if so... fair enough.

Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
...until you not exit that area where nothing happens anymore, and we reach the situation I talked about before, enemies looking at each other, waiting for a timer to run out, no scoring pending.
So instead of ending early, it last to the maximum duration.
Sure, but the winning team still wins. The issue of cap ship turrets... or so it has been decried multiple times as to why they should be off is because the team with the higher score would hide behind the cap ships until the match ended. Of course, between you and Sammy there seems to now be the emerging the complaint of having to now wait to claim the win, so ... an easy solution is again, a mercy rule for an opposing team, either activated by a vote command, or by a disparity of points.

...

For once, and I know this is expecting much... rather than simply listing out endless and ever changing complaints, why not hash out the issue and propose solutions that compromise to achieve a goal. Crazy as it may seem, simply and stubbornly saying no without any regard to the absolute carnage being wrecked on new pilots by piss poor matchmaking systems is ignoring one key fact about gaming... all parties should be given a chance to spawn and pick their method of death.

...

So there, three potential solutions to all the problems you all have listed. Cap ships that turn on and off based on the difference in the TDM score for the losing team. A mercy rule. And lessening the damage that cap ship turrets do.

All of them, at least by my guess from mechanics that we already see in game... potentially not that hard to implement.

Now, to the rest of those reading... if you feel there is no problem with TDM and everything is great. So be it, but rather than shaking your head no and stubbornly refusing to acknowledge a differing perspective, consider the suggestions being made and their pros and cons... and try discussing, revamping, or proposing different. Thanks.
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Ryuku-sama's Avatar


Ryuku-sama
08.04.2014 , 06:34 PM | #13
Just a little thing.. As an experienced player.. Spawning in a bomber ball is easy to counter... Spawn on something with CP.. Kill bombers. Profit. That's why I always make sure I have one or two CP builds in my line up when I queue on toon with more than two useful ships.

In the maybe 200 matches between TDM arrival and spawn turrets going on strike I played, I've seen a winning team staying at spawn about a dozens of matches. And a losing team stalling, three or four times.

And seriously, if you're getting farmed at spawn, you deserve it. If I can hold a spawn solo against 3-4 ships... Well they deserve to be camped. Killing a bomber is easy. Killing a gunship camping is harder but still easy on about any ship. Killing a battlescout intent on farming you can be a lot harder... Until your whole team coordinates.

And between you know that whole area between spawn and cover one has to travel through?? Well that's why no one will pull off a spawn. Going into that when you were just farming the enemy is a death sentence. Except some scout no ship has enough boost to get off spawn while avoiding lock and making it hard to not be gunned down by a gunship. It's simply easier to stay there and farm than to pull off and be focused without cover.
"If it wasn't broken, we shall break it. If it is balanced, we shall beat it until slow and painful death follows. If it is overpowered, it is working as intended." - Bioware 2015

Iliac's Avatar


Iliac
08.04.2014 , 07:59 PM | #14
Ok, you want the Cap Ship Turrets back, that can be done but need a few modifications.

1. Add a visible bubble around the cap ship. If an attacking ship enters or attacks a ship inside this bubble the turrets will attack & kill the attacking ship.
2. Add a spawn timer. This timer would start when you spawn and countdown. Once it reaches 0, if you are still inside the bubble you would die from friendly fire from the the Cap Ship Turrets.
3. If you retreat and re-enter the bubble you would die from friendly fire from the the Cap Ship Turrets.
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but it's not a country that guarantees anything you say is correct"
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Verain's Avatar


Verain
08.04.2014 , 10:56 PM | #15
Those ideas are all silly. Anything that involves "no retreat" or "friendly fire" is ludicrous.


There are other solutions, but honestly, the easiest would just be spawn points not all along that edge if your team is lagging, like you can spawn center top, etc. It could even default you there to help new players- or better yet, default you to whichever "needs the help" such that a wad of players spawns middle, then next time they spawn south spawn (normal), etc.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

SammyGStatus's Avatar


SammyGStatus
08.05.2014 , 11:23 AM | #16
I liked the idea that additional spawn points would be created if losing by 10+ kills. Read that in the last thread about this.

The main issue is why delay the *** whopping? You're going to get beat, and in the spirit of PVP, dragging it on goes against the combative situation. I don't know why your server didn't have the safety net space at the cap ships, but on Jung'Ma, it was annoying as hell to wait for the opportunity to kill someone who has retreated to their cap ship. It may not be "nice" but this is a PVP game, and the old method was broken and wrong. There's a reason they took them out
Renegade-One / Leggogurl / Aimbot / Even'ess / Status

RatPoison's Avatar


RatPoison
08.05.2014 , 05:03 PM | #17
Hence why the suggested addition of a mercy rule which could be activated by a player initiated command and vote (not far unlike the vote kick system that we had(?) in the pvp ground game), or by a preset difference in scores for not only TDM, but also Domination. Just because a team is getting their *** whooped doesn't mean it needs to be dragged out to the end of a match. I know I don't take any great pleasure in stomping new pilots into the pavement, and would be absolutely fine if they could vote to end the match. I opine this as a far better result than simply reminding them of their plight with death after death till the match ends.

Still this alone, doesn't do anything in the grand scheme of things to provide safe entry into a match, or the ability to even get ones fix on the situation after spawning. I know I take a moment after a death to look at the map closer to see where the mismatches are or could be, but I doubt many less experienced pilots take those seconds to figure anything out until they're flying once again and seeing the red markers flying in the actual map.

...

And for the record, I personally don't care if the cap ship turrets ever get turned back on. I do however recognize that there were far fewer matches impacted by turrets prior to their dismissal while not long after they were terminated spawn camping and the inadvertent result of pushing a team back to their spawn became common place. And since we're all being honest, I've not seen beyond screenshots from others of matches where some or all of the spawn points were being camped in various matches. I'm certain this is a rarity like the other scenarios talked about. Still, if the premise of turning the turrets off is to prevent one tactic that was a rarity, then turning them on to prevent another rare event should also be a compelling reason. Of course, making changes to how they function to compromise the two issues would be the goal so as to give each side of the coin balance going forward.

...

And Nemarus, I've noted your suggested of making a new thread, but since there has been little to no positive feedback for the idea by the few people participating in the forum, I'm skeptical that such a topic would foster any positive discussion.
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Verain's Avatar


Verain
08.05.2014 , 09:32 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by RatPoison View Post
I opine this as a far better result than simply reminding them of their plight with death after death till the match ends.
I think you would want something that would add points very very slowly if a team was winning, but faster and easily countered. That's better than just vote quit to end IMO.

Quote:
I do however recognize that there were far fewer matches impacted by turrets prior to their dismissal while not long after they were terminated spawn camping and the inadvertent result of pushing a team back to their spawn became common place.
I do actually concur with this. The spawn turrets didn't matter much. But it could be an issue when it did.

Quote:
I've not seen beyond screenshots from others of matches where some or all of the spawn points were being camped in various matches.
I definitely spawn camp enough that I would say it is a thing.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

RatPoison's Avatar


RatPoison
08.06.2014 , 02:28 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
I think you would want something that would add points very very slowly if a team was winning, but faster and easily countered. That's better than just vote quit to end IMO.
I'm not sure I understand fully what you're getting at... and if you mean that having a method of adding points if cap ship turrets were on? Assuming that you do, then you can add a mechanism to encourage occupation of the central portion of the map.

Of course, I deeply believe that only simple solutions ever get implemented in games with low population/interest... one possible way of discouraging pushing a team back to their spawns would be to reward points for occupying an area of the map (in this case the center). But instead of having it be such a tiny area like in domination with satellites, make the area huge, and encompassing at least 50% (or more of the map). Reward a fraction of a point for every ship on the team that is within that area for a minute, and have it added to the score through the match.

This makes it more than just an outright death match, but if the area in play is large enough and killing ships yields points faster (unlike in domination) then this is one possible method to add points. I would also say that this addition would be applicable for both teams, meaning that if both teams are in the area for the whole minute (without dying or leaving the space) they would both accumulate the same amount of points.

As I dream this up though, I can think of a very very silly pilot of JC who likes to hop on a bomber in TDM and go to an obscure corner with one way in and sit there all match in the tight space with his mines. The locations he uses are such that a gunship can't pop him or his mines safely. In above scenario, as an extreme example, if all of the team hid in a hole as bombers and dropped mines while within this area... the other team would be likely SOL in their ability to win.

Though I guess if a team did that even now... the outcome would be the same, so I'm not sure if that's worth being concerned over.

I don't know... somebody else is bound to have simple ideas?
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Bolo_Yeung's Avatar


Bolo_Yeung
08.07.2014 , 05:00 PM | #20
The main problem with spawn camping is the fact, that ships are visible - and vunlerable - while their pilots have 'hyperspace' animation played, and the ships can't be controlled ... i.e. they are just slow moving targets.Rail crit, barrage of lasers, mines, drones etc - can kill the ship before it will even be able to be controlled by pilot.
So, one idea - ship should be visible no sooner than they are controllable. Maybe even 3-4 second long invulnerability would help even better (to counter mines, drones etc). Lets call it a 'hyperspace distortion'
Of course, this wouldn't apply to ships going via the hyperspace beacon...