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Pre-Mitigation DtPS for Nightmare Dread Palace

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Pre-Mitigation DtPS for Nightmare Dread Palace

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
08.02.2014 , 11:52 AM | #1
Inspire by Zahik's awesome thread from Dread Fortress, here is a far less statistically valid knock-off. Hopefully some other tanks will weigh in with their data and help clean up the dataset. For now though, you're basically just stuck with my logs. And by "logs" I mean "log". I wanted to wait until my guild had cleared Council before pursuing this effort, but as anyone who has pulled that boss knows, it's a long slog. Oh well, it's a work in progress.

Logs

Analysis

I used my tank log analysis script on each of the kills from my log above. Ignore the health histogram bit, since it is bugged. Also note that the analysis script does not account for AoE abilities or the extra DR from hybrid. Additionally note that the analysis script doesn't attempt to compensate for active cooldowns and the like. That's something that I could probably do if people were really interested, but for now, these numbers are most valid if you happen to use your defensives in a pattern very similar to mine (e.g. I have a cooldown up 100% of the time when I have agro on Tyrans, with no exceptions).

Anyway, here are the results:

Honestly, things really are not all that different from hard mode, except that the DtPS is up by an insane percentage. Tyrans, for example, has a pre-mitigation DtPS of 4643.5 without adjusting for cooldowns and without accounting for the fact that I only have agro on him 50% of the time! That's insane. That means that, when I have agro on the boss, I'm probably taking pretty close to 8k DtPS pre-mitigation and pre-cooldowns. I mean, it's really cool that bioware is adding bosses which really put tank mitigation to the test, but holy crud on a cracker…

To facilitate checking and further refining these numbers, I use the following pattern for my cooldowns on each boss:
  • Bestia - No CDs until third monster, then Cloak followed by Battle Readiness. Deflection when taking Bestia, and Resilience to cheese every other Swelling Despair. Adrenal as needed in third phase. Battle Readiness into Deflection in soft enrage.
  • Tyrans - Nothing on initial pull. Every time I take agro after that, Resilience for first Thundering Blast. Two GCDs later, Blackout. At end of Inferno cast, either Battle Readiness or Deflection. Adrenal as needed.
  • Calphayus - Nothing on initial pull. Every time I have agro after first past/future phases, Deflection or Battle Readiness depending on which is up.
  • Raptus - Resilience to cheese Execution whenever it's up, except for following second challenge or Spinning Attack, where I cheese Driving Thrust instead. Blackout on Execution whenever Resilience is down. Deflection when cotank gets lots. Battle Readiness as needed and to assist with Blackout taking an enraged Force Execution if needed.

There are probably better ways to apply certain CDs (I could be more aggressive in Bestia, for example), but this is the rough idea. If you want to go through my logs and factor out the cooldowns, this should give you a rough idea of where to look.

Results

Bestia
  • DtPS = 4797.96
  • M/R+K/E = 58.92%
  • F/T+K/E = 38.75%
  • F/T+I/E = 2.33%

Abilities
  • Swipe (Dread Monster) - 4454 x 48 (m/r+k/e)
  • Squash (Dread Monster) - 12147 x 38 (m/r+k/e)
  • Dread Strike (Dread Master Bestia) - 3510 x 36 (m/r+k/e)
  • Assault (Dread Master Bestia) - 7662 x 77 (m/r+k/e)
  • Swat (Dread Larva) - 5395 x 15 (m/r+k/e)
  • Pulverize (Dread Monster) - 20248 x 17 (f/t+k/e)
  • Dread Charge (Dread Master Bestia) - 19536 x 1 (f/t+k/e)
  • Dread Scream (Dread Master Bestia) - 12771 x 26 (f/t+k/e)
  • Swelling Despair (Dread Master Bestia) - 27291 x 6 (f/t+k/e)
  • Expectorate (Dread Larva) - 7413 x 8 (f/t+i/e)

Tyrans

Adjusting Thundering Blast manually for the 30% AoE DR. Oh, and I appeared to get hilariously lucky on Affliction and never took it, even once.
  • DtPS = 4643.51
  • M/R+K/E = 75.84%
  • F/T+K/E = 24.16%
  • F/T+I/E = 0%

Abilities
  • Shock (Dread Master Tyrans) - 6447 x 212 (m/r+k/e)
  • Smash (Dread Master Tyrans) - 10917 x 13 (f/t+k/e)
  • Thundering Blast (Dread Master Tyrans) - 24467 x 12 (f/t+k/e)

Calphayus
  • DtPS = 2531.94
  • M/R+K/E = 84.74%
  • F/T+K/E = 5.91%
  • F/T+I/E = 9.35%

Abilities

I stand in the purple circles, because our healer asked me to ease her boredom…
  • Force Charge (Dread Master Calphayus) - 20040 x 2 (m/r+k/e)
  • Strike (Dread Master Calphayus) - 4093 x 235 (m/r+k/e)
  • Inevitability (Dread Master Calphayus) - 10476 x 3 (f/t+k/e)
  • Overload (Dread Master Calphayus) - 4804 x 8 (f/t+k/e)
  • Inevitable Decay (Dark Growth) - 3351 x 33 (f/t+i/e)

Raptus

Didn't adjust any of these abilities, because I cooldown so many of them. Help?
  • DtPS = 3753.85
  • M/R+K/E = 67.63%
  • F/T+K/E = 27.88%
  • F/T+I/E = 4.48%

Abilities
  • Slash Attack (Dread Master Raptus) - 10308 x 81 (m/r+k/e)
  • Rising Slash (Dread Master Raptus) - 59288 x 6 (m/r+k/e)
  • Force Wave (Dread Master Raptus) - 6255 x 19 (f/t+k/e)
  • Force Execution (Dread Master Raptus) - 49547 x 4 (f/t+k/e)
  • Driving Thrust (Dread Master Raptus) - 43465 x 4 (f/t+k/e)
  • Berserker Curse (Doomed Captive) - 922 x 80 (f/t+i/e)
  • Spinning Attack (Dread Master Raptus) - 1035 x 5 (f/t+i/e)
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Streaming Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

MGNMTTRN's Avatar


MGNMTTRN
08.04.2014 , 02:24 PM | #2
Are DTPS values what you'd get if every hit didn't miss, get shielded, and didn't have any damage reduction applied? Or do they already incorporate base boss miss%?

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
08.04.2014 , 03:35 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by MGNMTTRN View Post
Are DTPS values what you'd get if every hit didn't miss, get shielded, and didn't have any damage reduction applied? Or do they already incorporate base boss miss%?
The pre-mitigation DtPS values are defined as what would happen if the boss never missed, you never shielded, and your damage reduction was reduced to 0%. Thus, you should be able to take these values, incorporate baseline boss miss chance, your defense, shield and absorb percentages and your damage reduction to compute a reasonable expected post-mitigation DtPS on that boss.

The biggest caveat with the above is that I didn't remove defensive CDs. This throws off the numbers a lot on a couple bosses, most notably Tyrans (where I have at least one CD up constantly). If you have a more sophisticated DtPS calculator which compensates for these things, I would much much much rather use it than my hacky Ruby script.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Streaming Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

MGNMTTRN's Avatar


MGNMTTRN
08.04.2014 , 03:53 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
The pre-mitigation DtPS values are defined as what would happen if the boss never missed, you never shielded, and your damage reduction was reduced to 0%. Thus, you should be able to take these values, incorporate baseline boss miss chance
For the ideal tank stat distribution, are you using a base 90% base hit rate for melee/ranged attacks? The bosses in your log tend to have around 80%-60% total miss rates on most attacks, so probably ~50% base hit rate on most melee attacks.

Methoxa's Avatar


Methoxa
08.05.2014 , 02:51 AM | #5
@Raptus : Slash Attack, Force Wave, Force Execution,Driving thrust and berserker curse are aoe's and are therfore subject to you hybrid 30% aoe dmg reduction.

I am not sure whether spinning attack is an aoe or not. But given the fact that you only took 1k per hit i guess it is an aoe.
Dread Master

HBCentaurion's Avatar


HBCentaurion
08.05.2014 , 02:55 AM | #6
Excellent work as always KeyboardNinja!

I've gone in with high absorb / shield on my jugg on Tyrans, but looking at your numbers - should I be going with defense since shock is the most frequent attack?
The Red Eclipse | Neafful - Juggernaut - Tank | Ixarus - Powertech - Tank | Reezio - Operative - Healer
[HERESY] Gaming Community | We are recruiting motivated raiders!

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
08.05.2014 , 11:58 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by MGNMTTRN View Post
For the ideal tank stat distribution, are you using a base 90% base hit rate for melee/ranged attacks? The bosses in your log tend to have around 80%-60% total miss rates on most attacks, so probably ~50% base hit rate on most melee attacks.
For the ideal tank stat distribution, I'm using a hit rate of 100% for 25% of m/r damage and 90% for 75% of the damage. This seemed to line up pretty well with HM DF/DP, at least based on some cursory work that Zahik and I did. A lot of that number was skewed by Nefra, which is 100% m/r damage and is all low-accuracy.

As for my miss rate, it does seem very oddly high. I'll check my script to make sure that I'm calculating things correctly (third-party verification welcomed!). I would expect my miss rate to be somewhere around the following pre-cooldowns:

0.2490 + 0.05 + 0.1*0.75 = 37.40%

Now, my cotank is a vanguard, and he is using Riot Gas extensively, so inflate that up to around 40%. I'm not using defense-based cooldowns that often, so I think 40% should be about right. Bestia fits that profile (which is reassuring, since it's the longest fight), but Raptus and Tyrans are just obscene outliers. I mean, maybe Shock is lower accuracy than I thought but…Raptus?! Something is screwy.

Quote: Originally Posted by Methoxa View Post
@Raptus : Slash Attack, Force Wave, Force Execution,Driving thrust and berserker curse are aoe's and are therfore subject to you hybrid 30% aoe dmg reduction.
I am almost positive that Slash Attack is not an AoE. Perhaps you're thinking of Deadly Slash? Do you have a log which demonstrates this, one way or another? (incidentally, my cotank is uploading his logs, which should give us a bit more data)

Execution, Wave, Thrust and the curse are definitely AoEs though. I should just suck it up and do the math on those abilities to get more accurate results.

Quote: Originally Posted by Methoxa View Post
I am not sure whether spinning attack is an aoe or not. But given the fact that you only took 1k per hit i guess it is an aoe.
More than likely, yes. It at least looks like an AoE. The only way to be absolutely sure though is to throw a Powertech into it and see if they get healed.

Quote: Originally Posted by HBCentaurion View Post
Excellent work as always KeyboardNinja!
Thanks!

Quote: Originally Posted by HBCentaurion View Post
I've gone in with high absorb / shield on my jugg on Tyrans, but looking at your numbers - should I be going with defense since shock is the most frequent attack?
Yeah, that's a good question. Shield/absorb is going to help you a lot more on Thundering Blast, obviously. However, as a Jugg, you're simply not going to be able to pick up enough shield/absorb to make much of a difference. I would gear for the fight according to the damage distributions, straight-up. That is to say, according to the mid-M/R profile in my Ideal Tank Stats post.

I really wish Tyrans weren't so biased in favor of assassins and against juggs, but that's another rant…
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Streaming Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
08.05.2014 , 06:47 PM | #8
I wouldn't mind seeing an "AoE %" stat so I can know if its worth running the ephimeral mending relic + tactics spec for some fights (like what happens in brontes)...

Get analysing dem VG logs!

Also I like how the graph for bestia says you died at the 100 second mark, but then went on to drop as low as -100khp :P
Kwerty, Level 60 Vanguard on The Harbinger
Vanguard DPS Guide | Powertech DPS Guide

RIP Plasmatech 3.0 - 3.1.1

xxSHOONYxx's Avatar


xxSHOONYxx
08.05.2014 , 07:06 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by TACeMossie View Post
I wouldn't mind seeing an "AoE %" stat so I can know if its worth running the ephimeral mending relic + tactics spec for some fights (like what happens in brontes)...

Get analysing dem VG logs!

Also I like how the graph for bestia says you died at the 100 second mark, but then went on to drop as low as -100khp :P
If either you or KBN could explain the bestia graph for me I'd appreciate it, I really don't understand how you can have -113k hp. Was it a graphing error or just how the fight gets recorded?

Also Voting to see an AoE percentage due to my new interest in AP tanking
Taunted for her pleasure
I have like 28 dps characters

Methoxa's Avatar


Methoxa
08.06.2014 , 02:14 AM | #10
Quote:
I am almost positive that Slash Attack is not an AoE. Perhaps you're thinking of Deadly Slash
Yes i meant Deadly slash. Wasnt sure about its name and because i didnt read deadly slash in your listing of raptus but Slash i thought its name was Slash.


for clarification my log of raptus nm ( jugg tank): http://www.torparse.com/a/736549

Note: The log has been splitted into 3 fight no idea why ( maybe bc of the challenge), nevertheless we want to see which attacks the 30% aoe dmg reduction effects.

Spoiler


More spinning attacks :

Spoiler


Thick market numbers is the average dmg per attack


For comparison Tam's log :

Spoiler


Looks like the 30% aoe reduction effects the spinning attack, amongst nearly all attacks of raptus.

Btw. Tam if you want you can use my logs for your calculations, although my raid has other tactics especially @ council than other raids.


Although it was a typo, slash dmg comparison :

Methoxa : 3986 Average dmg per hit
Tam : 2079 Average dmg per hit

I am full absorb/shield mostly 186 with fr+rw
Dread Master