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Average Item Level Requirements for Flashpoints

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Average Item Level Requirements for Flashpoints

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
07.31.2014 , 04:00 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by wadecounty View Post
As for your one isolated experience, that's just what that is. It hardly EVER happens. I play on an RP server and I can count the amount of times I've ever seen someone show up to a flashpoint in less than 148 gear on one hand. I can't even remember the last time it happened.
For me personally (on Begeren Colony), I've been running a lot of FPs on my new Operative healer. About 50% of the players have been are overgeared, about 40% have been good enough for government work, and about 10% have been undergeared (as in, below the recommended gear level for the flashpoint in question).

Luckily it's been rare that the majority of the players are undergeared, so we can still muddle through. And is also rare to see the absurdly undergeared (e.g. 17K HP tank).

But there have been 4 times in the last few weeks where the group was just not capable of finishing the flashpoint. And mind you, I'm a persistent bugger so I didn't abandon these runs, I stuck with them until they finally crumbled.

DarthSpekulatius's Avatar


DarthSpekulatius
08.01.2014 , 01:48 AM | #22
you say you'd prefer an Intelligence test instead of the gearcheck but since we can't get the intelligence test we must have an gearcheck?
Quote: Originally Posted by Dras_Keto View Post
Im not even advocating an unreasonable barrier to being able to use the Group Finder. An average iLevel of 148 is trivial to accomplish. You get 5 free pieces of 156 gear just for doing a few missions on oricon.
but that Oricon comment points once more to your seeming lack of knowledge (or ignorance) that People were doing HC Flashpoints before these easy ways to gear up were in game and while some Classes were beaten to the floor by the 2.0 changes.

yea 18k dds (with correct itemization) are on the low end, but they can do enough DPS if they know what they are doing, and when do you have two 18k live dps in the same HC FP?.

the Mood is far better when you're running with People that aren't afraid to loose a handful of game money,
what's the worst that could happen? the Undergeared player realizes the Group can't do it with him/her and leaves but if everyone did their best up until then then everyone will have learned something from it.

the Drama raises proportionally to the gear People have and I don't play a game to have people capsloc at each other.

MWidowmaker's Avatar


MWidowmaker
08.01.2014 , 01:49 AM | #23
because a marauder in appropriate ilevel gear that is wrong for his class by having light armor with lots of willpower or cunning as its primary stats would meet the ilevel standards if not the intelligence standards and would ensure group success!!! need to get around that little glitch because i have seen people geared like that, and i am guessing you have too. or the trooper wearing juggernaut gear because hey its heavy armor and it has a higher item level!

lol
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Dras_Keto's Avatar


Dras_Keto
08.01.2014 , 01:24 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpekulatius View Post
you say you'd prefer an Intelligence test instead of the gearcheck but since we can't get the intelligence test we must have an gearcheck?
Yeah, Id definitely prefer an intelligence check. Then we could get you out of there.

Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpekulatius View Post
but that Oricon comment points once more to your seeming lack of knowledge (or ignorance) that People were doing HC Flashpoints before these easy ways to gear up were in game and while some Classes were beaten to the floor by the 2.0 changes.
Unless you are using a magical time machine and playing in the past (and are willing to share so that everyone else can, too) I dont see what your point is. Right now is now, Oricon exists. That means there is a completely free and easy way to get gear that is significantly better than the 148 recommended. In other words, it is even easier now than it was before to meet the minimum reccomended gear. In still other words, you have even less of an excuse now than you might have before.

Quote: Originally Posted by MWidowmaker View Post
because a marauder in appropriate ilevel gear that is wrong for his class by having light armor with lots of willpower or cunning as its primary stats would meet the ilevel standards if not the intelligence standards and would ensure group success!!! need to get around that little glitch because i have seen people geared like that, and i am guessing you have too. or the trooper wearing juggernaut gear because hey its heavy armor and it has a higher item level!
Yet another guy who seems to think "Ah, look, a minor flaw, that means the entire thing is useless and should be abandoned." Nothing in life is ever completely, 110% perfect. Nothing. There are pretty simple ways around this though. All you have to do is code it in such a way that mods with the wrong main stat dont contribute to the way the system calculates your average iLevel. We already know that the game can look at individual mods in an item when calculating bolster, so the architecture is there.

Even if they did not do this, I would still rather have some dork wearing a few peices of incorrect gear to meet the iLevel requirement because that shows they are capable of even minor amounts of abstract thought. That they have a little bit of creativity and problem solving ability. That they can look at a problem and figure out a solution.

Those are all much better signs than some 16k HP KDY graduate who thinks they are greatest thing since sliced bread.

fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
08.02.2014 , 12:31 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Loc_n_lol View Post
Not with tank gear, no (but 148 tank gear is atrocious, full of alacrity enhancements, so you don't want that anyway)
I have never and would never queue for tank in a 55HM with less than 30k HP.

The worst I've seen was a 19k HP assassin tank who was in dps gear and spec, and put on a dark ward at the beginning and called it a day. That was Mando raiders HM and I was healing. I decided to stick with it just to see how far we could get (up to the hound pack inside the first long corridor). I hope that lesson was learned but I'm skeptical.
You and I really should do some flashpoints together lol ...... You seem to have very very strange believes. in fact you should have been able to heal that 19k HP assassin 'tank'. I have done so myself on a sub rakata geared healer in Mando raiders. We votekicked our tank out quite early on and my friend who played assassin dps slapped on a lv38 shield and tanked the rest. If i can do it than so could you.
I think you are confusing lower gear with lower skill.

Anyways .......... people people people ...... Please try to remember when the 55 flashpoints were launched. What was our gear at that time? Do you guys really think everybody started out with full UW on these FP's?
NOPE!!!!

Best you had in these days was 63 dreadguard gear, added with a few 66 pieces you obtained on Makeb. But THATS it. The fact that we are being spoiled with the gear on oricon DOES NOT change this. Its a free and optional boost.

I made a quick AMR profile of what bioware is currently RECOMMENDING (please note that recommending is NOT a bare minimum, at least in my dictionary it hasn't changed meaning yet).

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...0-a429141428cb
This gear is very badly itemized with not remotely enough accuracy but it is enough according to bioware. Associated HP is 25k HP for a guardian/jugg dps

Taking it 1 step down to full 63 DG gear which was the best we could get in the prelude towards 2.0 .....
again, I didnt bother to properly itemize it since bioware doesn't require you to min max gear for anything other than highend raiding.
HP this time slightly less than 24k HP

Having said all this..... 18k HP is rather low BUT if said person has a main/offhand which compensates the rest of the gear its fine.

As final closing note I want to share 2 stories with you guys.
1st story:
When I was solo'ing hammerstation HM on my shadowtank I never got to the enragetimer of bosses. I had to skip the bonusboss because back in those days I had insufficient gear on my comp and myself. Every other boss proved to be no issues.

2nd story:
On my 162/168 geared merc healer I joined a flashpoint in progress and got Cademimu HM. I found out fast why the previous healer left since both the tank and the 2 DPS were very new at it with very low gear. Also they were screwing up tactics royally on the 1st boss thanks to the stupid SM tactics of killing the boss 1st and ignoring the droids. Anyways ... not the point. I instructed them how to do it properly and from there on we had no issues. I convinced them to do the bonusboss too while all 3 were a bit skeptical since they read that the bonusbosses were quite hard to do.
1st try we had an enraged boss and wiped because the tank forgot to properly position the boss. 2nd try I did a little off DPS on my healer and we managed to beat it without issues.
Last boss also was a breeze.

Long story short. These 3 guys were people who would have been ridiculed by most of the persons in this thread. I gave them a chance and they proved to be able to kill it.

I guess I want to say this:
Stop looking obsessively to HP and gearlevels. Lower gear doesn't mean not enough gear. Be patient with people, teach them the ropes. After all, they are the future of this game just like kids are the future of yourself.
Progression raiding toons on the big RED
Macewindy - Sab Slinger since patch 1.2 through ups and downs
PugsloveHP - the 96k HP commando DPS/healer
(4.0 HP, currently updating it to 5.0)

MWidowmaker's Avatar


MWidowmaker
08.02.2014 , 01:15 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Dras_Keto View Post
Even if they did not do this, I would still rather have some dork wearing a few peices of incorrect gear to meet the iLevel requirement because that shows they are capable of even minor amounts of abstract thought. .
that is just ignorant. i would prefer to have someone who actually knows what stats to use and wear over someone just throwing random crap on just because. throwing random crap on doesn't show abstract thought, in fact it is quite the opposite, but whatever, go ahead mr keyboard warrior lol
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Dras_Keto's Avatar


Dras_Keto
08.03.2014 , 07:04 AM | #27
A: Surprise surprise. More people who cant read.

B: HM flashpoints are NOT school. We are not obligated to teach people. They should not be the "first step" for the random person who has never done anything harder than a story quest. That is what the level 50 HMs are for and why they are still in the queue selector at 55 (and why bioware upgraded the loot from them). If you go into an HM expecting everyone to bend over backwards to teach you everything that you should have been learning for the past 54 levels but were too lazy or clueless to pick up on ... you are in the wrong place.

Khaleijo's Avatar


Khaleijo
08.03.2014 , 10:20 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Dras_Keto View Post
A: Surprise surprise. More people who cant read.

B: HM flashpoints are NOT school. We are not obligated to teach people. They should not be the "first step" for the random person who has never done anything harder than a story quest. That is what the level 50 HMs are for and why they are still in the queue selector at 55 (and why bioware upgraded the loot from them). If you go into an HM expecting everyone to bend over backwards to teach you everything that you should have been learning for the past 54 levels but were too lazy or clueless to pick up on ... you are in the wrong place.
Then you should explain me how a leveling character can learn anything in the 50 HM FP which
A don't pop very often since KDY, even before i could count the queue pops of my alts from 50 to 55 with one hand while listing as healer or tank.
B if the queue pops you are running with 2 or 3 level 55 players most of the time, who are going there for basic commendations and who are ignoring almost every mechanic there is, because they can do that, wearing gear from 168 and above.
For example I can just damage tank everything except maybe Kaon or Lost Island with my madness sin listing as tank (if it doen't work i'm prepared to change spec and gear and i tell the group before starting if they are ok with that), and even a level 50 Healer won't have a lot to do, because everything will die so fast, that resource management or rotation has no importance at all, even following the mechanics doesn't matter.
Was False Emperor just yesterday, no boss lived long enough to become a threat to the group, half of them even died before they could use their most important skills or mechanic. I for myself at least ask and explain the mechanics before pulling, but most of the time nothing of the important stuff happens, so what do inexperienced players learn there?

If there is a <55 tank the 55 DPS will usually just damage tank everything, giving the tank no chance to do his job properly and learn how to do HM FPs, because they are as impatient towards the new or leveling crowd as they are towards the fresh 55 in 55 HM FPs.
So please tell me, where are new players really given the chance, help and time to learn ?

Dras_Keto's Avatar


Dras_Keto
08.03.2014 , 11:51 AM | #29
Flashpoints are not where you learn to play your class. If someone manages to go from 1-55 without ever having a moment similar to:
Quote:
"Hey, you know, all these talents Im putting points into, a lot of them talk about or buff this rocket punch ability. A lot of them also require me to use it, or give me the best chance for getting some favourable outcome if I do... and none of them talk about unload ... or missile blast ... or explosive dart, and rocket punch is a 4m ability on a 6 second cd ... maybe .. just maybe, I should be in melee range? WOW! EPIPHANY!"
or:
Quote:
"Huh, the only talent that even mentions Crushing Darkness is in the Madness tree, and it makes it free, instant, and resets the cooldown... and every time I try and hard cast it, whatever is beating on my face makes it take twice as long to get off ... maybe, just maybe, I shouldnt be using it while tanking? WOW! EPIPHANY!"
Thats not my problem. Its also irrelevant.

Lets say, however, just for the sake of argument, there was an item level requirement, some random, totally clueless person would at least have to go do a few level 50 flashpoints before they got into 55s. Thats more practice than they would otherwise get.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
08.03.2014 , 02:58 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Dras_Keto View Post
Flashpoints are not where you learn to play your class.
First of all, let me say that I don't disagree with you. Players should learn their class while leveling.

Unfortunately, the leveling experience it far too easy if you have a companion out.

Bring out a dps companion? Things die super quick and you don't have to use very many abilities.
Bring out a tank companion? Take little damage, hop on your speeder to "regen" comp hp in 0 secs.
Bring out a heal compaion? Sleepwalk through leveling no problem.
Do all this while 3-5 levels over content? You can auto-attack your way to success.

How is anyone supposed to learn their class, their rotation, their defensive CDs, if they never have to use them?