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Average Item Level Requirements for Flashpoints

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Average Item Level Requirements for Flashpoints

Dras_Keto's Avatar


Dras_Keto
07.27.2014 , 06:10 PM | #1
We need them.

There was a 23k hp assassin "tank" and an 18k hp sorc "dps" in an HM Mando. They claimed that because the were level 55 they (and I sh*t you not) had 'a natural right' to be there. Needless to say, I got out of there as fast as I could.

Situations like this are getting distressingly common. To the point that, I think we need a minimum required average level of gear before someone is allowed to queue for certain things.

Leave the ability to manually walk into any instance you meet the level requirement for. Thats fine, if you know up front what youre getting into, thats cool. But with Group Finder the system we have now needs to be changed.

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
07.27.2014 , 07:47 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Dras_Keto View Post
We need them.

There was a 23k hp assassin "tank" and an 18k hp sorc "dps" in an HM Mando. They claimed that because the were level 55 they (and I sh*t you not) had 'a natural right' to be there. Needless to say, I got out of there as fast as I could.

Situations like this are getting distressingly common. To the point that, I think we need a minimum required average level of gear before someone is allowed to queue for certain things.

Leave the ability to manually walk into any instance you meet the level requirement for. Thats fine, if you know up front what youre getting into, thats cool. But with Group Finder the system we have now needs to be changed.
To be fair, the sin was 'almost' geared. Recommended rating is 148, which gets you 25k hp. If he had a set bonus, he would have been fine. The DPS on the other hand...
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Dras_Keto's Avatar


Dras_Keto
07.27.2014 , 09:08 PM | #3
This is where Im confused. My powertech tank was in a mix of 146 and 150 rated gear at 50. It was mostly 146, campaign stuff (IE, the average was below 148). I had 26-27k hp. No endurance augments. By the time I was level 55, without changing any gear at all, I had about 30k. I think it might have been closer to 31.

There is no way there can be a difference of 6 or 7k purely going from 148 blues to 146/150 artifact.

It seems to me like a lot of people take "average item level of 148 or higher" to mean "if you have a couple 148 pieces, youre good to go."

Thats not what it means.

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Loc_n_lol
07.27.2014 , 09:11 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by TACeMossie View Post
Recommended rating is 148, which gets you 25k hp.
Not with tank gear, no (but 148 tank gear is atrocious, full of alacrity enhancements, so you don't want that anyway)
I have never and would never queue for tank in a 55HM with less than 30k HP.

The worst I've seen was a 19k HP assassin tank who was in dps gear and spec, and put on a dark ward at the beginning and called it a day. That was Mando raiders HM and I was healing. I decided to stick with it just to see how far we could get (up to the hound pack inside the first long corridor). I hope that lesson was learned but I'm skeptical.
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TACeMossie
07.27.2014 , 10:36 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Loc_n_lol View Post
Not with tank gear, no (but 148 tank gear is atrocious, full of alacrity enhancements, so you don't want that anyway)
I have never and would never queue for tank in a 55HM with less than 30k HP.

The worst I've seen was a 19k HP assassin tank who was in dps gear and spec, and put on a dark ward at the beginning and called it a day. That was Mando raiders HM and I was healing. I decided to stick with it just to see how far we could get (up to the hound pack inside the first long corridor). I hope that lesson was learned but I'm skeptical.
I guess you misinterpreted what I meant by 148 gear
I meant this:
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...2-c2f1fbace9d2

And yes, I tanked a HM FP with a guildy while both of us were using equivalent gear to that, him as the healer. He never complained about my squishyness. I used resolve armorings so I could hold threat better, because nothing in flashpoints spikes for more than 10k anyway unless you stand in stupid.

Now can I improve that? Of course! Everything used is the crafted rating 148 stuff. You can get the rating 156 crafted stuff for slightly more than that. The earpiece/implants are the blue version of the veracity implants/earpiece, just without the extra shield rating which comes from the good earpiece/implant. There are no augments. No stims. No Datacrons. IT DOESNT HAVE RELICS.
It was all put together with the GTN and a bit of money. And 50% more money turns those blues into much better purples, and lets you tank operations.

Yet its more than tough enough to tank any flashpoint in the game.

Except Czerka Labs. But only because of the eradicator droid -_-

Oh and just remember, askmrrobot is still in the past, and refuses to acknowledge the changes in patch 2.5 to the skill tree, so the armor rating is much lower than it should be. Its about 38.1% with shadow protection up

And yeah, if you want to actually pay attention to semi-decent gear, use this one for optimized for HM FPs + Dailies tank set:
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...1-0fc23d5ad655

Note: This is a set up purely obtained from the GTN and classic comms vendors. No basic+ comms required! (use basic comms for iso-5s, which you then sell for money to buy BiS mods/enhancements of the 34 variety)
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And others
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venomlash's Avatar


venomlash
07.28.2014 , 02:24 PM | #6
My rule of thumb is 25k HP for DPS/healer, 30k HP for tank. Don't go into HM55s with anything less unless you've got a well-geared and knowledgeable friend there with you to carry you.
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Benirons
07.28.2014 , 04:12 PM | #7
Ill share with u a ridiculous story.

I had my fair share of sub standard geared folks queing for 55hms, so I decided to take it to the extreme and put my sniper in mostly dromund kaas lvl gear (pretty much all crappy greens). I purchased the worst green relics I could find on the dark/light side vendors, one of them was I think a defence chance boost relic lol.

Anyway, that type of gear netted roughly 11k HP and 140 ish ranged bonud dmg (I did a short test parse on a dummy with 94% acc and maintained just below 700 dps in marksman).

A friend of mine on his almost full DF sin tank and myself queued up and got a pop for an HM CZ labs of all things.

We got an average healer, some 35k cant remember and a 30k juggy vengence dps. Literally no one said a word, there wasnt even a vote kick, and no rage quits over my sniper' HP, I was quit surprised to be honest.

Now comes the crazy part. Remember those times when u enraged on the first droid boss with 20k something HP dps? Well guess what, that comp one shot it, I kid u not. My gimpy 11k sniper survived all the machanics and was able to put out enough dps to not hit enrage. I wish I timed how long it took us but didnt feel longer than usual.

Every other boss was one shot as well, and I did not die a single time on my sniper (though I admit it got VERY close a couple times, just pure skill with cooldowns saved my ***).

So there u have it. An 11k sniper and a 30k juggy beat all of HM cz labs cleanly, not a single death. Ill let you conclude what to think about those folks who cannot achieve this on 20k something dps toons.

Apart from that, that run was amazingly fun, I learnt to use cds extremely effectively to survive in very close calls. In esssence I learnt a lot about what I can do on a sniper.

Dras_Keto's Avatar


Dras_Keto
07.30.2014 , 07:43 AM | #8
So, in other words you and your friend decided to deliberately troll two other people and force them to carry your dead weight through the entirety of a flashpoint (no, Im not buying it that "you did enough DPS to justify the slot your were wasting)? Just because it is possible to complete a flashpoint with a single dps does not excuse forcing the issue.

This kind of thing is exactly why I think an iLevel requirement is necessary. Although it now seems clear that it would need to be extended to equipped iLevel. And perhaps a notification to the group that "X player no longer has an equipped average iLevel of 148" if they decide to emulate that guy and troll.

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wadecounty
07.30.2014 , 08:16 AM | #9
I can do more DPS in rakata gear than some people can in 180's. Just play it out, a bad dps is a bad dps and a bad tank is a bad tank, minimum item level requirements generally won't fix that. If it looks borderline doable and their gear is meh you can suggest them to upgrade it, but remember these were meant to be doable in Black Hole gear when 2.0 came out, that has not changed.

I wouldn't be upset unless the person had on leveling greens or something, but that's just me.
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Dras_Keto's Avatar


Dras_Keto
07.30.2014 , 08:53 AM | #10
And how many of the absurdly undergeared derps that queue up for HMFPs thinking they will get bolstered are actually experienced players who understand the ins and outs of their class and how to eke out every last bit of power out of it?

You cant present an extreme (and extremely unlikely) case and then use it to justify the general situation.

Besides, this thread has nothing to do with the quality or skill of the people you get in a random pug. It has to do with the people who are not ready for certain content being allowed by the system to get into it anyway. It isnt fair to the other members of the team that gets stuck with them, even if it is possible for them to "just deal with it."