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Please Devs, Enough with the Tactical Flashpoints as the Main Venue for "Content."

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Please Devs, Enough with the Tactical Flashpoints as the Main Venue for "Content."

KimbriOnasi's Avatar


KimbriOnasi
07.24.2014 , 09:46 PM | #1
Today I just heard exactly what I was afraid of. That part 2 of the new storyline once again is in the form of Tactical Flashpoints.

While I understand the value of tacticals--you can easily get a group of any 4 and see the story, there is a very large problem in the replay value of these. I have 13 level 55 characters all in level 168 gear or better. A story mode flashpoint that can't be done until level 55 that doesn't drop anything useful and gives elite comms (which I have coming out of my ears on most of my 55's) is pretty much useless to me. The 2-part flashpoint storyline I have played exactly twice--once on Imp side and once on Republic side. And the reason is that to do them requires a time commitment of approximately 2 hours and I get practically nothing out of it except having completed it on another toon. I'm not alone in this. We have more and more guild members/OPs team members leaving the game until there is more "new content"--which these tactical flashpoints don't count as to draw them back to the game.

If there were at least a Hard Mode FP version of these in addition, that would be something new and challenging. You potentially could even make the HM versions a new tier, like Lost Island was at one time.

But what we REALLY need is more story in the form of Operations--not new modes for operations. Please when you are continuing to develop new content and story in the future produce stuff that has actual replay value and that will draw people back in to the game.

Damask_Rose's Avatar


Damask_Rose
07.24.2014 , 11:22 PM | #2
Well, as someone who hasn't done a single operation yet, I really don't want to see them focus the stories in ops. When a large portion of the player base who plays for the stories doesn't do raids, it doesn't make sense to me to end main story arcs in operations. It prevents too many players from enjoying the core of the game.

I think that is why Bioware is struggling so hard trying to make group content more tempting to solo players. They want everyone to enjoy the stories, but not everyone likes grouping. Their two birds with one stone attempts are leaving both groups unsatisfied.


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Kulyok's Avatar


Kulyok
07.25.2014 , 12:37 AM | #3
I'm totally for new raids for raiders and new hard mode fps for well-geared players who like a challenge, but I, too, would prefer to see the actual story solo. If it's something important, something foreshadowing, I'd rather see it as solo content than a FP, even a tactical. I'd want to replay it on my alts, see the story more than a few times, experience everything at my own pace.

Btw, selling elite BoE mods for commendations and then selling them on GTN for credits seems like a fine idea - otherwise those elite comms are indeed kind of meh, since raiders are going straight for ultimates, and soloers just don't get enough of these on different alts to buy whole pieces of gear.
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Joran-Koon's Avatar


Joran-Koon
07.25.2014 , 01:32 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by KimbriOnasi View Post
And the reason is that to do them requires a time commitment of approximately 2 hours and I get practically nothing out of it except having completed it on another toon.
2 hours! You might be doing it wrong lol.

You guys know this is an mmo right? Experiencing the story together is one of the best parts. I remember my raid team flipping out when kephess returned in TFB and then seeing the terror, epic times.

If society has convinced you that it's best to experience life alone, you've taken a good step by playing video games, just dont choose a game where developers specifically design content for players to interact in and with other people. Would I like to see more ops, yes. But if that's all the game was we'd have problems. This is just one more chapter in creating game depth. It won't appeal to everyone but it will to some. So before you start complaining about what doesn't excite you, think about how this is a good thing. At least we're getting something right?
Kalizo

djdee's Avatar


djdee
07.25.2014 , 04:43 AM | #5
Without having actually seen the new FP yet, I have to agree with the OP. BW, if you have to do FPs at least make them challenging as Lost Island HM was when it came out.
See ya on the chronostream, time jockey!
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JeffNyman's Avatar


JeffNyman
07.25.2014 , 05:00 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Joran-Koon View Post
You guys know this is an mmo right? Experiencing the story together is one of the best parts.
Actually, it's an MMORPG. So some would argue that the RP is "one of the best parts" -- yet not everyone does that. Should we keep throwing the fact that not everyone RPs in their face? The fact that "it's an MMO" is a pretty tired argument these days given that it's known, industry-wide, that solo players are fast becoming a norm that companies have to account for. When you add in a heavy story-driven element, that focus on the solo player simply intensifies.

Some people don't like to "experience the story together." Some like to experience it on their own, at their own pace, or without having to wait for groups. I happen to be one of them. I like that there is group content for people. I like that there is story-content for people. What I'd like is for it not to be necessary to conflate those two things. As an option to conflate them: fine. Having it forced: not so fine.

Quote:
If society has convinced you that it's best to experience life alone, you've taken a good step by playing video games, just dont choose a game where developers specifically design content for players to interact in and with other people.
I'm sorry but it's ridiculous in the extreme to correlate "I want to experience a story-driven game solo" with "it's best to experience life alone." Seriously? You equate "experiencing life" with "experiencing some story content in a game alone"? That's apples and oranges, if I've ever seen it.

Much of (in fact, all of) the class stories in this game are designed to be done alone. So by your logic, much of this game has been designed where people *do not* have to interact with others. I think it's at least arguable that SWTOR is largely a single-player game with an MMO tacked on rather than the reverse. In that case, which group made the "wrong choice" to play?

The fact is SWTOR is one of the more heavily story-driven games out there that just so happens to be an MMO. What everyone is learning is that this balance is not easy to achieve among a player base that comes to such a game. You will have people who prefer to experience such games in different ways. The ideal situation would be for BioWare to recognize that, offering specific experiences for each type of player. How would they do that? I would imagine there are many ways. *That* would be a much better discussion than the tired old "This is an MMO!" discussion.

Damask_Rose's Avatar


Damask_Rose
07.25.2014 , 01:12 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Joran-Koon View Post
2 hours! You might be doing it wrong lol.

You guys know this is an mmo right? Experiencing the story together is one of the best parts. I remember my raid team flipping out when kephess returned in TFB and then seeing the terror, epic times.

If society has convinced you that it's best to experience life alone, you've taken a good step by playing video games, just dont choose a game where developers specifically design content for players to interact in and with other people. Would I like to see more ops, yes. But if that's all the game was we'd have problems. This is just one more chapter in creating game depth. It won't appeal to everyone but it will to some. So before you start complaining about what doesn't excite you, think about how this is a good thing. At least we're getting something right?
I'm not going to re-cover the ground Jeff covered, but I"m going to stress a few points.

1. Enjoying group content and enjoying shared story are separate things. I enjoy pvp and I don't mind grouping up for dailies, world bosses or the odd flashpoint here and there, but I don't like sharing cut-scenes with random people. I don't like having to abide by their choices and I don't like feeling rushed. I like making my own choices, and exiting out if I'm not happy with the results. Sometimes I like redoing scenes for screenshots. (And I have zero interest in taking screen shots with random strangers!)

2. I don't think putting the main story in a raid is a good thing. That doesn't mean I think they should stop making operations and that doesn't mean I think operations shouldn't have stories. What I do mean is that the main story should be readily available for every player, which boils down to solo questing. I believe they had it right when group content had engaging stories that were separate from the main story.

3. I assume you mean by "at least we are getting something", you mean that any content is better than no content. Hard to argue that. However, finishing Forged Alliances with an operation follows the same pattern as Oricon. I believe that is a very bad road to go down. Regularly excluding a large section of the playerbase from the conclusion of major story arcs can't be good for the long term health of the game. (Imagine if you will if every new operation concluded with having a pvp battle over the final boss. It's a similar scenario.)


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PLynkes's Avatar


PLynkes
07.25.2014 , 02:02 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Joran-Koon View Post
You guys know this is an mmo right? Experiencing the story together is one of the best parts.
Tell that to Captain Skip Cutscene™ and his Spacebar Marines!

Gnimish's Avatar


Gnimish
07.25.2014 , 02:03 PM | #9
I'm fine with them for people to experience the story, just wish hm came out at same time for people looking for more of a challenge.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
07.25.2014 , 02:06 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Damask_Rose View Post
However, finishing Forged Alliances with an operation follows the same pattern as Oricon. I believe that is a very bad road to go down.
I really really disagree with this statement.

I spent many hours enjoying all of the storylines solo play offered. The draw of "finding out what happens" encouraged me to play every single class storyline in the game, all planetary quests, and all side quests. There is a truly epic amount of story to see as a purely solo player.

The fact that the Dread Masters arc (which I started on the Belsavis planetary quest line) picked up in operations made me want to try operations. And so I did. I thoroughly appreciate the fact that there is a mix of both solo and group storytelling. This game caters to BOTH types of players.

I hope this trend continues. It's a GOOD thing.