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Tank dps question


CIhe's Avatar


CIhe
07.21.2014 , 03:24 PM | #1
(This is mostly aimed toward the VG/PT tanks out there.)

I have been tanking on a guardian/jugg since 2.0 (mained an assassin before that) and I recently leveled up a VG to help out another raid group in my guild cover a tank spot. When I started tanking some with the VG recently threat hasn't been an issue but I noticed a huge gap between the dps I am able to put out on my VG vs the guardian.

The few ops I was in I was hovering around 1k dps maybe 1.1k on some fights. On similar fights I am easily hitting 1.25k to 1.4k (I can get close to 1.5k on NiM drax but that is pure reflect crits inflating the number)

Granted I still have a veracity ear and I need to switch out my endo crystals for power ones but I can't see that being a ~200dps boost.

done beating around the bush, what numbers are y'all hitting while you are tanking? How are you doing it? Do you use full auto / unload? Am I misremembering VG/PTs being kings of tank dps?

Kuciwalker's Avatar


Kuciwalker
07.21.2014 , 04:34 PM | #2
I pull a little over 1.4 on Nefra (on my VG) when I'm really trying to maximize dps and don't have to deal with too many droids.

And no, I don't use full auto rotationally.

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
07.21.2014 , 05:25 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by CIhe View Post
(This is mostly aimed toward the VG/PT tanks out there.)

I have been tanking on a guardian/jugg since 2.0 (mained an assassin before that) and I recently leveled up a VG to help out another raid group in my guild cover a tank spot. When I started tanking some with the VG recently threat hasn't been an issue but I noticed a huge gap between the dps I am able to put out on my VG vs the guardian.

The few ops I was in I was hovering around 1k dps maybe 1.1k on some fights. On similar fights I am easily hitting 1.25k to 1.4k (I can get close to 1.5k on NiM drax but that is pure reflect crits inflating the number)

Granted I still have a veracity ear and I need to switch out my endo crystals for power ones but I can't see that being a ~200dps boost.

done beating around the bush, what numbers are y'all hitting while you are tanking? How are you doing it? Do you use full auto / unload? Am I misremembering VG/PTs being kings of tank dps?
Well, first off you should never use full auto. It suffers pushback so hammer shots is pretty much better in every way.

Now that we've covered that, on to how2damage as a VG Tank:
1. Pulse Cannon on cooldown
2. High Impact Bolt on cooldown
3. Stockstrike on cooldown
4. Mortar Volley on cooldown
5. Energy Blast on cooldown
6. Ion Pulse if everything is on cooldown and ammo > 76
7. Recharge Cells when ammo regen is at 2/4 arrows (you can burn ammo with Ion Pulse when recharge cells is up)
8. Reserve powercell on Mortar Volley
9. Shoulder Cannon should be used with Battle Focus (and battle focus with mortar volley)

Do that and you'll be doing the damage you were doing on your guardian. Maybe.
Though shadows were always the tank DPS kings :P

One other thing - Vanguards have a lot of self heals based off their max health - so unlike with a guardian, swapping HP for Power is a mitigation loss
Kwerty, Level 65 Vanguard/Powertech on The Harbinger

3.0 Guides: Vanguard DPS Guide | Powertech DPS Guide
4.0 Guides: Advanced Prototype | Pyrotech

CIhe's Avatar


CIhe
07.21.2014 , 05:52 PM | #4
Thanks for the advice guys!

you don't save shoulder cannon as a defensive cooldown? i think that in itself will be a big change in my dps i had been saving it for when i was low/ knew the healers were busy with other things. ill practice it up and try and fine tune it like the guardian. also is full auto worth it on things like tyrans when the other tank has the boss or don't bother?

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
07.21.2014 , 06:39 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by CIhe View Post
Thanks for the advice guys!

you don't save shoulder cannon as a defensive cooldown? i think that in itself will be a big change in my dps i had been saving it for when i was low/ knew the healers were busy with other things. ill practice it up and try and fine tune it like the guardian. also is full auto worth it on things like tyrans when the other tank has the boss or don't bother?
Even in cases like that, dont bother. An ion Pulse + hammer shots is pretty much just as strong, but doesnt screw you over if you take the tiniest amount of damage and has a much better chance to proc Ion Cell (And by extension, Power Screens)

Oh and I sometimes use shoulder cannon as a defensive, but its usually for fights where I know there are painful areas. Here are some examples:
Nefra - Tank + Spank, shoulder Cannon on cooldown
Draxus - If you are main tank, use it on his ludicrous burst attack (cull)
Grob'thok - If 15+ adds start beating away on you
Corruptor Zero - If 5+ adds start beating on you
Brontes - Use on cooldown, the fight is painful enough already. Fingers phase after the clock phase is also a good time to use it, because its such a heals intensive phase

Bestia - If you get 2+ adds on you
Tyrans - Use on cooldown
Calphayus - Use on cooldown
Raptus - Use in challenges, then on cooldown
Dread Council - on cooldown, the whole fight is heals intensive
Kwerty, Level 65 Vanguard/Powertech on The Harbinger

3.0 Guides: Vanguard DPS Guide | Powertech DPS Guide
4.0 Guides: Advanced Prototype | Pyrotech

sanctified's Avatar


sanctified
07.21.2014 , 10:25 PM | #6
I'm curious about something as well: With the current tier of damage dps players can currently push out, is tank damage as important as it once was? I have a Powertech and a Juggernaut: I much prefer my juggernaut, but the PT hits like a truck. I'm a little conflicted over fun vs. practicality.
Playing since October 1st, 2011. Squad 238 for life.

Joel_Eisenlipz's Avatar


Joel_Eisenlipz
07.22.2014 , 07:27 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctified View Post
With the current tier of damage dps players can currently push out, is tank damage as important as it once was?
I think that's a great question for your team to answer. If all four of your DPS players are pumping out damage like they should be, that extra bit from a tank shouldn't be necessary. That being said, if you can increase your damage (and threat) without penalizing your healers, then why wouldn't you?

I have been Jugg/Guardian tanking since before 2.0, and only recently started off-tanking in Rage spec. We reached a point with NiM Draxus where our DPS couldn't output more without derping assignments/mechanics. But since our healers can easily handle the extra work, I am really enjoying smashing all of the things.
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Methoxa's Avatar


Methoxa
07.22.2014 , 07:35 AM | #8
#1 i doubt that a pt's dps is higher than a guardian's

#2 the difference wont be more than 100dps. That difference is even in nm not much.

#3 with the "new" gear dps will have 3-3.5k dps. Tankdps therefore are still 50% of a dps's. Meaning its as important as it always was

#4 Playing ragespec + tanking draxus + dismantler was impossible before the nm buff was removed. You could however bringt a taundps instead of the second tank. Now with the nm buff removable dtps is far lower and you could tank draxus in dps spec.
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sanctified's Avatar


sanctified
07.22.2014 , 04:35 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Methoxa View Post
#1 i doubt that a pt's dps is higher than a guardian's

#2 the difference wont be more than 100dps. That difference is even in nm not much.

#3 with the "new" gear dps will have 3-3.5k dps. Tankdps therefore are still 50% of a dps's. Meaning its as important as it always was

#4 Playing ragespec + tanking draxus + dismantler was impossible before the nm buff was removed. You could however bringt a taundps instead of the second tank. Now with the nm buff removable dtps is far lower and you could tank draxus in dps spec.
I wrote current, not new, Sarcas-moe. Yeesh.
Playing since October 1st, 2011. Squad 238 for life.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
07.22.2014 , 04:41 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Methoxa View Post
#1 i doubt that a pt's dps is higher than a guardian's
It's not. The best boss to measure this on is Nefra (any mode). As far as I can tell, right now, a perfectly played shadow/assassin tank in full 186s except main hand will get about a 1600 on NiM Nefra, assuming average droid RNG and a guardian cotank. With a vanguard cotank, I lose about 40 DPS due to the need to manage the accuracy debuff.

I haven't done extensive testing between the tanks in 186 gear, but at least in 180s, all three of the tanks were pumping 1500-1520 DPS on HM Nefra. And by all three I mean really all three of them. I have parses that look equally lucky/unlucky from all three classes that sit within about 20 DPS of each other. All of the tanks are very, very precisely balanced in terms of damage output.

I think it's probably harder to achieve that level of damage output as a Guardian/Jugg though, simply because of the numerous tools you need to balance. That may just be my inexperience though (I can't get my Jugg even close to what my shadow can do).

Quote: Originally Posted by Methoxa View Post
#3 with the "new" gear dps will have 3-3.5k dps. Tankdps therefore are still 50% of a dps's. Meaning its as important as it always was
3.5k? Am I missing something? Nightmare-calibre DPS in 186s are pulling 4.1k these days. That puts tanks at about 40% of what a DPS can do.

Quote: Originally Posted by Methoxa View Post
Now with the nm buff removable dtps is far lower and you could tank draxus in dps spec.
I imagine it hurts though. Also…why?!?! If your healers are really a strength that you want to exploit, then exploit it by leaving up all four of the lightning adds in Phase 5. It takes the only damage check left in the fight and makes it nearly trivial at the cost of much higher healing.
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