A variety of threads over the last month or so has gotten me thinking about Strike class design and balance in the meta.

I like strikes far better than the other classes, and so do at least a few others judging by forum comments, so in terms of fun game play they are offering something that some players like a great deal. So in the most important way, strikes are well designed and doing fine.

There is something other classes have (or had) though, that strikes have never had.

Strikes don't have an "Ultimate Killing Machine TM" build available. The other ship classes have these builds, though the bomber version recently got nerfed into mediocrity. What I mean by this is that the other ship classes have a type where the ideal categories of components are available for each slot and within each slot the ideal individual components are available. We all know those ships well: the type 1 gunship, the type 2 scout, (formerly) the minelayer (R.I.P. SIM bombers).

Balance wise I think it's worth noting that when people say that strikes lag behind other classes in performance, often what they mean is that no strike build can compete in offensive killing power compared to the optimized offensive "killer" builds of other ship classes. When, "strikes suck compared to gunships," usually what's meant is, "no strike can match the killing power of a type 1 gunship under comparable conditions." I've yet to see a, "strikes suck compared to type 2 gunships," post (I'm sure someone will make one or link one for me though ).

In strikes the closest we have to an ideal build is the type 3, but it should have thrusters instead of sensors to have the perfect set of component slots, and within those slots some of the better offensive options (such as HLCs, LLCs, Concussions, Clusters, etc) are not available because the type 3 is meant to be a support ship.

It seems like an odd design choice to have three ship classes that have a sub-type with almost perfect offensive design, and one class that doesn't even try for an ideal offensive build. Solid builds, yes, but ideal? No.

Aside from the lack of a "killer" type build, strikes do have a few other design handicaps that are maybe a bit problematic from an ideal game balance perspective.

Strike "Class defining Slot" components don't synergise with the rest of the build as well as those of competing ship classes for type 1 and type 2 strikes. It's particularly bad on the type 1 because when swapping cannon for cannon there is no good close range option available (sorry devs, but RFLs just do not cut it. I think if you changed them so that they fired randomly selected Jawa-grams instead of doing damage that would probably be widely regarded as a significant upgrade by most GSF pilots). Basically type one and two strikes get less value out of one of their major component slots than other ships get out of their equivalent slot. On the type one, it's a matter of flat out bad design in available cannon options. On the type two it's not a problem in terms of having a nice set of options, but it still suffers a bit from increasing reliance on missiles in a missile break rich environment.

Type one and two strike fighters share the same job as all the other non-utility GSF ship types; kill other starfighters as quickly as possible. They're not in a really terrible place at the moment, but I think they could be buffed by at least a minor component's worth of power without disrupting game balance, perhaps even a bit more depending on how you applied it.

Or maybe we should hope for a type four strike fighter which will be the "killer" build of strike fighter. Based on current trends the Republic version would, of course, have 5 engines, and the Imperial version would look like the creation of a drunken and blindfolded welding student.

Actually, in terms of balancing the meta, it might be easier to just crank out a new offensive strike type than to try tuning things so that the existing strikes can match (or at least get closer to) the offensive punch of the best of the other ship classes. It wouldn't be all that hard. Take a type 3, swap sensors for thrusters, and have no compassion for possible targets when choosing which components should be available for each slot.

Example type 4 Strike component options:

Primary: HLCs, Quads, LLCs

Secondary: Cluster, Concussion, Interdiction, Proton, Thermite

Engine: Power dive, Barrel Roll, Retro thrusters, Weapon Power Converter

Systems: Remote slicing, Combat Command, *New system that buffs missile performance*

Shields: Quick Charge, Charged Plating, Directional

Thrusters: Turning, Regeneration, Speed, Power

Reactor: Large, Turbo, Regeneration

Armor: Deflection, Lightweight, Reinforced

Capacitor: Damage, Frequency, Range

Example for the new system (note, these are bullsh*t numbers, you'd have to do serious balancing work on it, might also have to change what the mechanics do)

Rotary Launcher: CD 90 sec, 15 sec duration, Reduces missile reload time by 25% and lock time by 5%

t1 CD reduced 20 sec

t2 Increases missile range by 10%

t3 Ability duration increased by 5 seconds

t4 Increases ammo pool by 4 or Increases missile crit chance 15%

t5 Increases missile damage 10% or Reduces lock time an additional 10%

On the whole, I'd say the support strike is excellent, the missile strike is fine, the cannons strike needs help (in the form of a better short range cannon), and the optimized strike does not exist.

Given that the optimized gunship and optimized scout do exsist, and that the optimized bomber existed for a while (and who knows, might return at some point in a more benign form), I think that an optimized strike wouldn't be out of line, and perhaps might satisfy those that think that strikes are in serious need of help balance-wise. It would also take several years less time than nerfing all of the classes into offensive parity at the rate things are currently going.

I will actually say that the Type 2 Gunship is generally better than the Type 1 Strike or Type 2 Strike. I dispute- heavily- that the issue is just with a couple ships, and that the solution is to make an uber strike.

The Type 1 Gunship lacks a capacitor and a thruster, and would normally prefer either of these choices to sensors. The type 2 scout doesn't really lack for components, but wouldn't mind having heavy lasers available.

But the "good ships", including others, don't need optimal components to perform. The type 3 gunship is quite solid, as is the type 1 scout. The type 3 strike is generally very solid as a support ship, the type 3 bomber is a very aggro dogfighter, and the type 2 bomber offers some very powerful fleet support. All of these could pick something to swap out to be better.

So no, I don't think we need a type 4 strike that stacks "the good components". The current strikes are full of garbage like "weapon power converter" and "shield power converter"- components you see on the heavier ship types, but don't waste space on scouts. If you pretend that these components were actually desirable, you'd see the strikes being able to choose between more mobile and (presumably) more defensive or offensive playstyles. A good start would be to take these components and make them worth having.

The crown jewel of your post is definitely the rotary launcher system, however. That would be hella beast, and should live on some strike, at some point.

I am with Verain on the respect they need to change other things, and the Rotary missile launcher idea makes me salivate...

25% reload time, 10% Reduced lock-on, 10% range increase, more ammo to compensate for the fact that I will be unloading these things into people... yes please... (Also 15 seconds is to short for this considering how long the reload times on the bigger missiles are) I would say 30 second lasting time with 90 second CD . Is it OP, MAYBE but strikes need their day .

No but seriously, they just need to buff Strikes in other ways. There is littlerally ALL KINDS of ways to do it out there, the devs just need to do it.

Between making engine effeciency equal to scouts, or DF loss of break, increased reload times or Lock on times for Clusters so that the more "Strike unique" missiles were more useful, adding engine components like Power dive or Retro's to Strikes that dont have them... others have talked about Passive damage boosts, adding in a 5th minor component to all of them (that would be a bit overboard if you ask me), Adding in -Shield pierce passively so that their strong shields are more meaningful against people with things like Pods and railguns causing them to not get as much of a benefit from the fact that they have the strongest shields in the game. Changing the companion reload character from the worthless 8% to the 25% (or better yet 33% which is what it would be with this proposed system and the companion ability combined).

I am of the opinion they could do multiple of these and the strike would still barely be on par with some of the other ships. (again not all but these are just a few of the ideas I have seen)

Heh, well I'm glad people like the idea for Rotary Laucher at least. Though, I've gotta point out, without a type 4 strike it would be sort of pointless. The type 3 isn't ever going to get anything like that, and I wouldn't want to see it on a scout, (maybe some bombers could use it though).

Part of what I think plagues the strike is that it's options just don't work together as well as the options on other classes do. Type 1s are the poster child for this of course, but it affects type 2s too.

The Rotary Launcher idea came out of thinking, "Ok, what would you want in a system if you were trying to make a really well designed strike type that had a system slot." I wasn't aiming for OP, so much as for fitting with a strike in the way that BOs and TT fit with a scout.

Strikes are heavily invested in missiles, so a missile buffing system seemed logical. The rest of it is basically modelled on combat command, but it tries to be useful for both slow and quick firing missiles with some bias to the heavier ones.

It's that sort of "everything fits perfectly" type design that really just passes strikes by for the most part.

It's true that fixing all the shoddy components would maybe have pretty much the same effect, but they revise useless components upwards so slowly that I'd sort of rather see some other faster fix attempted first.

Strikes don't have an "Ultimate Killing Machine TM" build available. The other ship classes have these builds, though the bomber version recently got nerfed into mediocrity. What I mean by this is that the other ship classes have a type where the ideal categories of components are available for each slot and within each slot the ideal individual components are available. We all know those ships well: the type 1 gunship, the type 2 scout, (formerly) the minelayer (R.I.P. SIM bombers).

That's not really true. Only the scouts have a build with systematically optimal components. e.g. the Quarrel has a sensor component that would love to be a thruster.

The current strikes are full of garbage like "weapon power converter" and "shield power converter"- components you see on the heavier ship types, but don't waste space on scouts. If you pretend that these components were actually desirable, you'd see the strikes being able to choose between more mobile and (presumably) more defensive or offensive playstyles. A good start would be to take these components and make them worth having.

Random ideas:

Weapon Power Converter

• A big passive buff to weapon power regen (downside: kind of obviates the actual ability, since weapon power isn't really that big of a deal anyway)
  
• On-use: instantly reloads a missile
  
• On-use: instantly locks on a missile (!!!) (would require massive CD increase)
  
• On-use: buffs damage or ROF or range or crit chance for X seconds (X ~= 1.5)
  

Strikes don't have an "Ultimate Killing Machine TM" build available. The other ship classes have these builds, though the bomber version recently got nerfed into mediocrity. What I mean by this is that the other ship classes have a type where the ideal categories of components are available for each slot and within each slot the ideal individual components are available. We all know those ships well: the type 1 gunship, the type 2 scout, (formerly) the minelayer (R.I.P. SIM bombers).

If you're speaking about secondary component, those of a Type-2 Scout or a Type-1 Gunship are rather abnormalities more than anything else.

If you look at other ships, when they have an offensive nature, they don't get all the defensive ones. And when they have a defensive/support nature, they get both defensive components, and are poorly equipped with offensive ones.

Are offensive and do not get Armor : Starguard - Comet Breaker - Condor - Sledgehammer

Are offensive and do not get Reactor : Novadive (corrected by Ryuku) - Pike

Are defensive/support and gets both : Spearpoint - Clarion - Rampart - Warcarrier

Only Flashfire and Quarrel are fully offensive while having the full benefit from both defensive components. You'll notice that one of the three category, one is oddly poorly filled...

It's a design choice I'll never understand as it turns them into super ships among their own class, even before considering their exclusive component.

If you're speaking about secondary component, those of a Type-2 Scout or a Type-1 Gunship are rather abnormalities more than anything else.

 

If you look at other ships, when they have an offensive nature, they don't get all the defensive ones. And when they have a defensive/support nature, they get both defensive components, and are poorly equipped with offensive ones.

 

Are offensive and do not get Armor : Starguard - Comet Breaker - Condor - Sledgehammer

Are offensive and do not get Reactor : Pike - Novadive

Are defensive/support and gets both : Spearpoint - Clarion - Rampart - Warcarrier

 

Only Flashfire and Quarrel are fully offensive while having the full benefit from both defensive components. You'll notice that one of the three category, one is oddly poorly filled...

It's a design choice I'll never understand as it turns them into super ships among their own class, even before considering their exclusive component.

I fixed it for ya

I fixed it for ya

Thanks. I was feeling something was wrong, but I couldn't pinpoint it.

Only the type 2 scout is really "optimal" on components. I mean, the type 1 gunship would definitely benefit from power dive or retros on their list, and heavy lasers, and would prefer a capacitor. That doesn't mean he's bad, just that he's no kind of odd bird in this.

Weapon Power Converter should probably give a buff when you use it, and the buff should increase blaster and railgun damage by some percent for several seconds. Even with that, this would be so ludicrously hard to use right- giving up an engine slot for more offensive power is what retro thrusters does, and that still manages to break locks. I'm really at a loss as to how to make this good without making it wildly too good.

Weapon Power Converter- On use, you get a 6 second buff. During the buff, secondary weapon damage increased by 20% and primary weapon damage increased by 40%.

That would be pretty wild, but someone running this doesn't have a missile break.

Shield power converter is harder, but probably needs to give negative bleedthrough (I'll have a bigger post on that) for a few seconds after use.

Only the type 2 scout is really "optimal" on components. I mean, the type 1 gunship would definitely benefit from power dive or retros on their list, and heavy lasers, and would prefer a capacitor. That doesn't mean he's bad, just that he's no kind of odd bird in this.

Thruster >> capacitor for the Quarrel.

I don't want them to make a type 4 strike.

Everything you want in a type 4 strike can be made out of type 1 or 2 depending on preference if they changed a few things.

For example, missile lock breaks should not be as ubiquitous as they are, or missiles favored by strikes (concussions etc) should do more damage. I'd be fine with either of these, leaning toward missile buffs personally since my favored strike fighter is the Quell and the one-two ion/concussion is just so satisfying. Alternately they could increase the firing arc for those missile types to make target acquisition easier.

For the type 1, the OP is right. For being a laser-focused platform, its laser selection is quite limited as opposed to the Quell which has almost every missile type in the game. I loaded mine with ions/quads and like it just fine but unlike a scout it has no TT or BO to turn it into a real butcher. The type 1 (and the game in general) could really benefit from an overhaul of Rapid Fire Lasers - but honestly I'd argue they should just be removed, as they have no place in a game where time on target is so low. They're a beginner's trap in terms of selection and they're only effective against beginners who don't realize they're even being shot at.

As an aside, Verain, shield power converter is better than any missile break IMO. I have it equipped on my Quell and all my bombers and I've never regretted it.

 

As an aside, Verain, shield power converter is better than any missile break IMO. I have it equipped on my Quell and all my bombers and I've never regretted it.

Yes, I see the same. Gives more engine power and negates damage from pesky missiles such as clusters. The other missile can dodge. Especially for Imperium and Decimus, who only have crappy engine components such as Power Die.

I too feel as though strikes are missing something but like everyone else, I find it hard to put my finger on what. They're all very well-rounded but lack a certain feature. To me the strike fighter doesn't have to be the deadliest, the toughest or the fastest, instead it comes in second for most categories, however, it should have a distinguishing feature other than "it has 3 weapons" gunships & bombers also have 3 weapon systems but they are more specialized then a strike fighter.

For me, more than anything else, the strike fighter represents the potential for great team play. Gunships are kind of "loners"; as are scouts. Bombers are great for team play but strikes could rival or surpass them. The clarion/imperium epitomizes the support role but I remember a system used in a tabletop game called Battletech called the C3 system where 1 mech was the master system while the others were the slave system but all 4 received benefit from the other. I realize that the t3 strike in a sense does this albeit in a limited role due to its choice of only 1 support system per ship. But what if the t1 & 2 strikes also had some support options that worked only for ships with C3 systems and of course only strikes would have the C3 option. So say the t1 star guard/Rycer could have combat command but it only works for C3 systems, the t2 pike/quell could have some sort of other C3 buff. So, in effect, the more strikes grouped together the greater they're all buffed. They feed off each other. Yes, I realize you could achieve this affect by lumping t3 strikes together but I think the C3 system only buffing other strikes would peek players' interests in strikes and promote more team play. Much like the bomber/gunship combo promotes team play through mutual support. Just an idea to promote strikes & team play through a little symbiosis.

-J'exx (republic privateer) 55'slinger THE Ebon Hawk

-Stalker (imperial Intellegence) 46 ops THE Ebon Hawk

Eh, I don't like that idea much at all.

By having that, you have to balance the strikes around that, and then a solo player on a strike looks at these things that they can't get and is like "man, this game is not for me". I don't have much sympathy for solo Q guys- but building a bunch of features into the core seems well beyond mean spirited.

I also don't like the idea of a strikeball being super powerful, nor would I be happy with our support strike getting coordinated burst on him and then suddenly we are all weak.

I do see where you are going with it- strikes feel ultimately a lot like support anyway- but I don't like that iteration.

Strikes don't have an "Ultimate Killing Machine TM" build available. ... other ship classes have a type where the ideal categories of components are available for each slot and within each slot the ideal individual components are available. ...no strike build can compete in offensive killing power compared to the optimized offensive "killer" builds of other ship classes.

 

It seems like an odd design choice to have three ship classes that have a sub-type with almost perfect offensive design, and one class that doesn't even try for an ideal offensive build. Solid builds, yes, but ideal? No.

 

 

 

Or maybe we should hope for a type four strike fighter which will be the "killer" build of strike fighter.

Actually, in terms of balancing the meta, it might be easier to just crank out a new offensive strike type than to try tuning things so that the existing strikes can match (or at least get closer to) the offensive punch of the best of the other ship classes.

 

Example type 4 Strike component options:

Primary: HLCs, Quads, LLCs

Secondary: Cluster, Concussion, Interdiction, Proton, Thermite

Engine: Power dive, Barrel Roll, Retro thrusters, Weapon Power Converter, Koiogran Turn

Systems: Remote slicing, Combat Command, *New system that buffs missile performance, Targeting Telemetry

Shields: Quick Charge, Charged Plating, Directional, Distortion Field

Thrusters: Turning, Regeneration, Speed, Power

Reactor: Large, Turbo, Regeneration

Armor: Deflection, Lightweight, Reinforced

Capacitor: Damage, Frequency, Range

 

 

editted: made some personal changes

That's not really true. Only the scouts have a build with systematically optimal components. e.g. the Quarrel has a sensor component that would love to be a thruster.

It didn't make it past Beta, so it's moot in some ways, but before sensor damping was effectively nerfed out of existence the sensor component on a gunship was actually an optimal offensive component option.

It wasn't changed to reflect the elimination of "stealth gunships" but the original type 1 gunship design intent was for full component synergy. It was outrageously overpowered synergy, in part because no one wanted to fly type 1 scouts in a genuine recon build, but it was there in the design phase.

Presumably the incessant stream of complaints about gunships made the devs feel that they didn't need to restore perfect component synergy to the type one after the dampening nerf.