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Drakolich's Ship builds


MaximilianPower's Avatar


MaximilianPower
09.17.2015 , 05:03 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
Updated my ship builds


Mangler:
Crit chance on Slug railgun to Extra damage
Slow on Ion Railgun to No regen
Engineer crew from Aven Geth 13% Engine efficiency/ 10% Blaster Pool to Blizz 13% Engine efficiency/ 10% Engine Pool
Re: the bolded - can I ask what the reasoning was? I know the case for each choice (at least, the conventional wisdom), just wondering why you decided to make the change.

Zuckerkorn Zuckernaut Spiderzuck Tensorcide Zuck-srw'i
Maximilian Power T°biasFŘnke Tryhard Neckbeard MaxPower-srw
Star Forge / Satele Shan / Darth Malgus


Self-Inflicted / Shadowlands Reconnaisance Wing / Retrocide / Imperial Entanglements

Enurrsha's Avatar


Enurrsha
09.17.2015 , 07:42 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by MaximilianPower View Post
Re: the bolded - can I ask what the reasoning was? I know the case for each choice (at least, the conventional wisdom), just wondering why you decided to make the change.
Hey Zuck, hey Drak -

I have actually debated the Mangler/Quarrel {crit chance to more base damage} change myself for a while, and finally made the switch several days ago to try it out. Sadly my matches since then have only had me in a gunship once or twice so not a lot of "field testing" yet. Regardless, looking at the theory on paper, I'll take a stab at this one. I'm gonna keep the math very basic & assume "perfect" probability & random number generator behavior to make it easier on myself.

Slug Railgun w/ 16% Crit Bonus

Standard Base Damage = 1,600
50% Crit damage bonus
84 normal shots X 1,600 damage = 134,400
16 crit shots X 2,400 damage = 38,400
total damage dealt = 172,800

Slug Railgun w/ 10% bonus to standard damage
adjusted standard base damage = 1,760
100 shots X 1,760 = 176,000


The difference in total damage dealt isn't huge but the 10% bonus wins a bit on paper. In real matches, the gap could actually be much larger. Because probability/RNG is involved, you never know when a crit hit might be "wasted" on a miss, in which case you "lost" 2,400 damage instead of 1,760. Likewise, even if your accuracy for a match was 100%, there is still no guarantee you will have even 1 critical hit. Another thing to consider is the shield piercing. In comparing non-crit hits you get about 40-50 points more past the shields with every slug shot using the 10% bonus option, in theory speeding up every enemy death.
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- just call me "BK" - GSF since early access - most active are listed, I have others -

Jedi Covenant - Beekay | Bee-kay | Beak'ay | Enurrsha | Essobee | D'gaf
Harbinger - Mr-goodkat --|-- Shadowlands - Beekay-srw
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Ryuku-sama's Avatar


Ryuku-sama
09.17.2015 , 08:45 AM | #23
True, the 10% damage is better on paper. But in flight, the extra damage is just way too small. Once your target is stripped of its shield, the only ships with enough hull to survive a slug without the 10% and die to a slug with the 10% are strikes with Reinforced Armor. Without shield, Sheeps and scouts get 1-slugged. If you're playing correctly your Quarrel, most of the time, you will face ships with very low shields.
The only time you should slug a target with shields up is if you're attacked.... And against every single attacker, ideal would be to Ion once then follow-up by a slug. 10% increase only the chance of 1-slugging unshielded strikers if they use a rather rare component. 16% crit gives you a chance to 1-slug shielded scouts, gunships and unshielded bombers.
So, in ideal conditions, when you can Ion your target before slugging, the crit chance is more valuable because it actually give you a chance to kill an unshielded bomber with one slug. If you can't Ion, the crit chance is still more valuable because it can 1-shot the enemy scout/gunship.
Personally I prefer having a chance to 1-shot in situations where I can't use two shots rather than needing to use two shots anyway.
"If it wasn't broken, we shall break it. If it is balanced, we shall beat it until slow and painful death follows. If it is overpowered, it is working as intended." - Bioware 2015

MaximilianPower's Avatar


MaximilianPower
09.17.2015 , 12:43 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Ryuku-sama View Post
True, the 10% damage is better on paper. But in flight, the extra damage is just way too small. Once your target is stripped of its shield, the only ships with enough hull to survive a slug without the 10% and die to a slug with the 10% are strikes with Reinforced Armor. Without shield, Sheeps and scouts get 1-slugged. If you're playing correctly your Quarrel, most of the time, you will face ships with very low shields.
The only time you should slug a target with shields up is if you're attacked.... And against every single attacker, ideal would be to Ion once then follow-up by a slug. 10% increase only the chance of 1-slugging unshielded strikers if they use a rather rare component. 16% crit gives you a chance to 1-slug shielded scouts, gunships and unshielded bombers.
So, in ideal conditions, when you can Ion your target before slugging, the crit chance is more valuable because it actually give you a chance to kill an unshielded bomber with one slug. If you can't Ion, the crit chance is still more valuable because it can 1-shot the enemy scout/gunship.
Personally I prefer having a chance to 1-shot in situations where I can't use two shots rather than needing to use two shots anyway.
Yeah, this is kinda where I land on the issue. Ultimately it seems that while the guaranteed extra damage is nice, it doesn't end up making a real difference - while a crit will frequently make a rather significant difference, even if you're at the mercy of RNGesus.

But I know Drak is aware of this, and also of the other side of the argument (as summarized by BK). Which is why I'm wondering why he decided to switch talents.

Zuckerkorn Zuckernaut Spiderzuck Tensorcide Zuck-srw'i
Maximilian Power T°biasFŘnke Tryhard Neckbeard MaxPower-srw
Star Forge / Satele Shan / Darth Malgus


Self-Inflicted / Shadowlands Reconnaisance Wing / Retrocide / Imperial Entanglements

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
09.17.2015 , 02:07 PM | #25
So all the reasons you guys stated is exactly why i used the Crit chance for so long on my Slug.

However there is one very key aspect I had overlooked. Damage Overcharge.

I typically only play Gunship in Deathmatch. When I play Deathmatch I average around 5 Damage Overcharges per match. (honestly that number might be higher)
I am of the opinion that once you get Damage Overcharge I don't Ion anymore only Slug, because what I'm looking for are one and done shots. I scan for targets that don't quite have full health still. Fire one shot and because of Damage Overcharge I usually finish my target. In this situation you're not looking for a Crit at all you just want to make sure you can finish the target. The extra damage with Damage Overcharge lets me do this to higher health targets.

The other minor reason I swaped is that when I don't have Damage Overcharge I started using Ion a lot more and found that once you had the target Ioned you didn't really need the Crit anymore.

Because of the swap my playstyle has changed a little to compensate, I now always open with Ion on any ship class (unless they are already low on health or I have Damage Overcharge).


Now for some fun math I've done that might explain it a bit better and/or help people. ^^

All the following number are assuming the player has taken 10% extra shield crew member and is not using reinforced armor. (I'm making these assumptions as this is the current meta in GSF)

Slug Railgun numbers with Damage Overcharge:
Crit talent: 3200 normal, 4800 crit
+10% damage talent: 3620 normal

Alright so here are some standard meta builds Shield + Health totals if you were firing a Slug at them.

Distortion field Sting 2380
Would get one shot no matter what so talents once you have Damage overcharge don't matter.

Distortion field Mangler/Jurgoran 3320
Here is the big one, without the 10% extra you would only one shot this target on a crit with Damage overcharge. In sniping war games having to do that 25% charge shot to finish another Gunship is a real pain especially a Distortion field one because now they have even more time to notice you firing at them and activate it meaning they get to retreat and you miss out on a kill.

Feedback Mangler/Jurgoran 3460
Even though this build is less popular I do see it quite a bit on Harbinger. This one also get's one shoted by the 10% extra damage shot once you have Damage Overcharge. It's a little less important as since they don't have the ability to activate more evasion you're follow up shot should still be pretty easy but it's a nice bonus.

Directional Jurgoran 3630
So this ship still can't be one shot even with Damage Overcharge, however because it's so close we can calculate what % of health the target would need to be able to and watch out for them with that health.
So we take 3630 - 3520 = 110 . I figure out percentages wierd apparently but from here I do 110x100=11000/1250=8.8 or for the number we are going to use 9 So if you have DO and a Directionals Jurgoran is under 91% hull in your targeting computer you can one shot it.

Those are the main targets I'm looking out for when I'm playing Gunship. Just incase anyone is interested I'll leave my list of % healths players need to be so you can finish them off with a DO +10% Slug. I find it very useful, I have it on a posted note on my monitor. :P


Directionals Strike fighter 82%

Directionals Jurgoran 91%

Shield Converter Bomber 67%

Alright that was way longer then I had planned but I hope that makes sense to you guys.



TLDR: +10% Damage on Slug lets me one shot Manglers at full health.
DrakolichDrakolÝch
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Ryuku-sama's Avatar


Ryuku-sama
09.17.2015 , 02:19 PM | #26
I see. That's something I overlooked.
"If it wasn't broken, we shall break it. If it is balanced, we shall beat it until slow and painful death follows. If it is overpowered, it is working as intended." - Bioware 2015

Enurrsha's Avatar


Enurrsha
09.17.2015 , 02:33 PM | #27
Drak -

I was hoping you'd bring up the DO factor. I was thinking about that as well, but I honestly couldn't remember if it was based off "original" base damage or if the 10% bump to base would then get DO boosted. Now I know.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- just call me "BK" - GSF since early access - most active are listed, I have others -

Jedi Covenant - Beekay | Bee-kay | Beak'ay | Enurrsha | Essobee | D'gaf
Harbinger - Mr-goodkat --|-- Shadowlands - Beekay-srw
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Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
09.17.2015 , 03:45 PM | #28
For anyone curious on Shield penetration kills with slug I'll throw up those numbers for fun.

These are assuming a Slug Railgun with +10% extra damage and the target not using reinforced armor.

Scout = 46%

Gunship = 35%

Strike fighter = 30%

Bomber = 21%

So if you look at the targeting computer and see their hull at a lower value then these you should just full charge slug them cause that will kill them.
DrakolichDrakolÝch
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Danalon's Avatar


Danalon
09.18.2015 , 10:49 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
Legion:
Aoe on seeker mine to Extra mine
Tactical crew from Salana Rok 5000m Communication/3500m to Scorpio 3000m Radius/3500m Focus
Copilot ability Wingman to Suppression
I'm more interested in the change to the mines. Are you having a lot of 1v1 situations and adjusted your build to that?

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
09.18.2015 , 11:51 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Danalon View Post
I'm more interested in the change to the mines. Are you having a lot of 1v1 situations and adjusted your build to that?
We use the Legion to setup an Anti scout area in Deathmatch. When we do this most of the time players only attack it one at a time so the AoE doesn't ever help.

Because players seldom attack that area I have plenty of time to setup all 3 mines. If I plan to use a Legion in Domination I swap it to the AoE because the seekers with AoE are way better in Domination. I just don't ever play it there anymore, hence the change.
DrakolichDrakolÝch
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