NOTE: WORK IN PROGRESS. Not all sections completed

Hey guys!

For those who don't know me I'm a PVEer and raider here on the Ebon Hawk. I write PVE guides for dulfy and by extension reddit and the SWTOR forums, but I've been PVPing actively for the past 2-3 months and I've had a pet project of sorts in writing a PVP guide for the Guardian class, specifically as a DPS.

Because this guide is for PVP however, I do not plan on posting it on the class forums YET, as the only place I actually have to test these theories is here on the Ebon Hawk, which, you guessed it, is here! I'll be covering my main spec, Vigilance Guardian and by extension the juggernaut counterpart. I'll go over spec, skills, priorities, strategies for fighting other classes.

The one other thing I will be showing you how to do, is how to actually KILL a Vigilance Guardian, and by kill I mean completely dismantle the class using your knowledge of the basic skillsets the class and spec has. I'll supply various icons so that you know what icon on the buff bar means what. Each element I supply will come with a counter, and possible ways to deal with the counter (There may very well won't be!) I'll also go through stat priorities for both specs as well as cooldown priorities, rotation combos, etc. The guide will begin as a written text, but eventually will show images, videos, so on so forth.

Before starting, please refer to Dulfy.net for the Dulfy Vigilance PVE guide. The reason why I ask this is that while the rotations and priorities may be different, the procs, cooldowns, and abilities themselves and the way they function are almost identical, therefore it's still worth skimming.

Also my juggernaut is sloppy, I might not have all the ability names. I'll get them eventually

My big rule is Gear is a Crutch. I've seen people in full Brutalizer get torn apart, and people in full PVE gear rip face. As a wise Captain America once said,

"Big Man in a suit of armor, take that away and what are you?"

If you know the answer, then proceed with this guide.

Stat Priority and Specialization

Vigilance / Vengeance

Vigilance and Vengeance Priority: You like Master Strike / Ravage. A lot

The ability priority for Vigilance goes as follows in PVP. There are multiple priorities. Note that in some cases the priorities depend on combos. Note that I will only list the main rotational abilities. Fillers are dependent on preference and situation. Use common sense.

Right after leap:

General

Gather Strength / Pooled Hatred Priority

(Icon: http://www.torhead.com/ability/5B4MwdM/gather-strength)

(Icon:http://www.torhead.com/ability/gEDv1rs/pooled-hatred)

(This Priority takes Precedence over General Priorty, meaning if you have at least 2 stacks, switch to this priority)

Killing a Tank Priority

Cooldown Style One Priority: Anti Defense (Think Deflection, Saber Ward, ETC.)

Cooldown Style 2 Priority :Anti Force and Tech IE Resilience

Cooldown Classes:

Vigilance Cooldowns Combinations!

ADVANCED DCDS (Also known as, how to turn into a tank and hold a huttball while still being Vigilance Spec)

Taunting!!!

Stunning and Mezzing

How to Counter The Guardian?

Vigilance Guardian is probably one of the more straightforward classes to legitimately take down conceptually, as the class itself is a pile of tricks that each have a loophole of sorts. That being said, in practice unless you actually know the class, it can be a lot harder to practically take a Vigilance Guardian down. It has a healthy White to Yellow damage ratio, a good CD suite especially with Focused Defense, and a decent amount of control but no hard stun.

Countering the Vigilance Opener and Master Strike

Defanging the Beast

Don't necessarily agree with everything here, but in terms of actual information, you should fix the description of Warding Call. It applies multiplicative DR, not additive, meaning using it in combination with your natural DR would not boost you near 100%. 40% of 50% (assuming that's what your DR is at when you pop it) is 20%, so its actually a tad weaker than Overcharge Saber (which is an additive DR cooldown).

Its still obviously a good cooldown, but not as potent as some believe. I'm pretty sure WZ Adrenals and Guardian Leap are also multiplicative, and only the bonus from Unremitting and Enure in Vigilance spec are additive. An easy way to test is to look at your character sheet, if its additive you'll see the extra DR listed, if its multiplicative you won't.

Don't necessarily agree with everything here, but in terms of actual information, you should fix the description of Warding Call. It applies multiplicative DR, not additive, meaning using it in combination with your natural DR would not boost you near 100%. 40% of 50% (assuming that's what your DR is at when you pop it) is 20%, so its actually a tad weaker than Overcharge Saber (which is an additive DR cooldown).

 

Its still obviously a good cooldown, but not as potent as some believe. I'm pretty sure WZ Adrenals and Guardian Leap are also multiplicative, and only the bonus from Unremitting and Enure in Vigilance spec are additive. An easy way to test is to look at your character sheet, if its additive you'll see the extra DR listed, if its multiplicative you won't.

Like I said, work in progress. What don't you agree with? Curious. It's a lot harder to write a PVP guide since there are so many ways to do things.

Like I said, work in progress. What don't you agree with? Curious. It's a lot harder to write a PVP guide since there are so many ways to do things.

Just the idea that the only way to go as a tank is mostly DPS gear to boost Focused Defense/Blade Barrier. Focused Defense is only used once every 2 minutes and Blade Barrier while up often is relatively small (around 1.2k damage absorbed) and the increase from gear is really trivial (the formula for it was up a while ago, I'd have to dig to look for it).

Mitigation is still a decent option since you'll never do great sustained damage as a Guardian tank, especially with the melee restriction (its far easier to spread damage to enemies with a Vanguard or Shadow thanks to their abundance of 10+ meter attacks), although I'd still emphasize absorption over defense because of the lack of white damage in PvP. Remember, you still mitigate damage through guard.

Also, I know you haven't posted the spec yet, but in suggesting the 4 piece Vindicator rather than the 2 piece War Leader for tanking, I'm assuming you haven't considered picking up the lowered cooldown for Stasis. However, being that one of the main advantages to tanking in PvP is control, I think those 2 things (lowered cooldown on Stasis and extra second duration) are huge for PvP tanking. Spec wise, the only things you're really giving up are 3% defense from SSM, and depending on how you spec, a small bit of strength or accuracy.

This is how I spec in pvp when tanking. I totally agree that there isn't just one way to do it, but the advantage of this spec is it maximizes both utility and control, at the expense of a small bit of damage potential from the least damaging tank in PvP.

That said, appreciate that you're making a guide, these are just some things that I do differently, only the factual stuff I'd worry about, the rest is all debatable.

Just the idea that the only way to go as a tank is mostly DPS gear to boost Focused Defense/Blade Barrier. Focused Defense is only used once every 2 minutes and Blade Barrier while up often is relatively small (around 1.2k damage absorbed) and the increase from gear is really trivial (the formula for it was up a while ago, I'd have to dig to look for it).

 

Mitigation is still a decent option since you'll never do great sustained damage as a Guardian tank, especially with the melee restriction (its far easier to spread damage to enemies with a Vanguard or Shadow thanks to their abundance of 10+ meter attacks), although I'd still emphasize absorption over defense because of the lack of white damage in PvP. Remember, you still mitigate damage through guard.

 

Also, I know you haven't posted the spec yet, but in suggesting the 4 piece Vindicator rather than the 2 piece War Leader for tanking, I'm assuming you haven't considered picking up the lowered cooldown for Stasis. However, being that one of the main advantages to tanking in PvP is control, I think those 2 things (lowered cooldown on Stasis and extra second duration) are huge for PvP tanking. Spec wise, the only things you're really giving up are 3% defense from SSM, and depending on how you spec, a small bit of strength or accuracy.

 

This is how I spec in pvp when tanking. I totally agree that there isn't just one way to do it, but the advantage of this spec is it maximizes both utility and control, at the expense of a small bit of damage potential from the least damaging tank in PvP.

 

That said, appreciate that you're making a guide, these are just some things that I do differently, only the factual stuff I'd worry about, the rest is all debatable.

I don't know the exact number of what BB absorbs, I need the formula. I know for a fact that 1500 is where Dread Forged PVE tank gear absorbs, I suspect DPS PVP gear absorbs about 2.5-3k per activation but i'm not SURE SURE. Parsec is finicky with absorb stats so I don't rely on it in this specific case. I'll probably get a few duels in to see how much it mitigates from a major hit, something normal and easily calculable.

I'm also aware of the peelhybrid spec, which I actually really want to try, but I dislike the loss of 5 second saber reflect and AOE taunt heal. Out of laziness I run 4pc vind on tank as well, but since as you said, tanking is control, I'll probably end up saying something like 2pc mandatory, 4pc debatable. I love Guardian Leap heal.

My primary goal with this guide is to get strategies for fighting as and against guardians circulating on this server (you'd be surprised how many know how to stun through unstoppable, like 2 people XD).

I don't know the exact number of what BB absorbs, I need the formula. I know for a fact that 1500 is where Dread Forged PVE tank gear absorbs, I suspect DPS PVP gear absorbs about 2.5-3k per activation but i'm not SURE SURE. Parsec is finicky with absorb stats so I don't rely on it in this specific case. I'll probably get a few duels in to see how much it mitigates from a major hit, something normal and easily calculable.

I've tested it in DPS gear as opposed to tank gear, you absorb about 100 more damage (this is PVE gear btw). Its really underwhelming.

I've tested it in DPS gear as opposed to tank gear, you absorb about 100 more damage (this is PVE gear btw). Its really underwhelming.

...

Da***?

I'll grab a smash monkey friend and see if I can average the damage mitigated by BB to his smashes.

(This is why there's a community XD)

...

 

Da***?

 

I'll grab a smash monkey friend and see if I can average the damage mitigated by BB to his smashes.

 

(This is why there's a community XD)

Well if you're going to do it like that, I'd suggest having the other person use an attack with a static damage amount. Flame Thrower/Pulse Cannon works well. Also make sure they have no damage proc relics equipped.

Well if you're going to do it like that, I'd suggest having the other person use an attack with a static damage amount. Flame Thrower/Pulse Cannon works well. Also make sure they have no damage proc relics equipped.

I'm now fairly sure it only absorbs about 1512 >.<. What doesn't make sense to me though is that if DF absorbs 1500 in tank gear + setbonus, how is it that in DPS gear it's so low? Is the PVE setbonus so strong it makes up for the lost mainstat? Grrrr. you say it's only a hundred or so difference from tank gear?

I'm now fairly sure it only absorbs about 1512 >.<. What doesn't make sense to me though is that if DF absorbs 1500 in tank gear + setbonus, how is it that in DPS gear it's so low? Is the PVE setbonus so strong it makes up for the lost mainstat? Grrrr. you say it's only a hundred or so difference from tank gear?

The PVE set bonus is huge. What I did when I tested was PVE tank gear, PVE tank set bonus with the rest DPS gear, and full DPS gear, and I got about the same results as you.

If you think about it this way, the PVE set bonus is 20%... if its absorbing say, 1250, that would knock you up to 1500 right there (1250 x 1.2)... so yeah, I guess DPS gear is a bit larger than a 100, more like a 200-250 increase, but still relatively small. And that boost would be even smaller in PvP gear since you're working under a smaller stat budget.

The PVE set bonus is huge. What I did when I tested was PVE tank gear, PVE tank set bonus with the rest DPS gear, and full DPS gear, and I got about the same results as you.

 

If you think about it this way, the PVE set bonus is 20%... if its absorbing say, 1250, that would knock you up to 1500 right there (1250 x 1.2)... so yeah, I guess DPS gear is a bit larger than a 100, more like a 200-250 increase, but still relatively small. And that boost would be even smaller in PvP gear since you're working under a smaller stat budget.

agreed. Now I want to test the PVE bonus

On an assassin, refer to burst spec if his stealth is on CD, if Stealth is off CD, go **** yourself, you blew your FD and there is nothing you can do about it.

Teehee.

But if you're super quick you can try and aoe taunt as soon as the shadow/sin pops stealth. This keeps them in combat and unable to mez. Can let you try to locate them or at least buy some time for Focused/Enraged Defense to do it's job/reinforcements to reach you. Aoe mez can work to if you want to waste it on a 'maybe'.

Fullproof? Not even a little bit. But grasping at straws > clutching skull in shame while opponent /dances in front of you.

Oh and forcelift/whirlwind has reduced activation time. So rule for fighting shadow/sin; always have cc break off CD.

Now; counter to FD/ED for DoT specs that doesn't involve trying to run away while tears are collected in a jar, plz&thanx.

Also, you can only use an AOE taunt if you are in Soresu form. Vigilance / Vengeance cannot use an AOE taunt

Not so: Tooltip

It was a change made for PvE only, the 30% reduced damage to players still exists regardless of form.

Teehee.

 

But if you're super quick you can try and aoe taunt as soon as the shadow/sin pops stealth. This keeps them in combat and unable to mez. Can let you try to locate them or at least buy some time for Focused/Enraged Defense to do it's job/reinforcements to reach you. Aoe mez can work to if you want to waste it on a 'maybe'.

 

Fullproof? Not even a little bit. But grasping at straws > clutching skull in shame while opponent /dances in front of you.

Oh and forcelift/whirlwind has reduced activation time. So rule for fighting shadow/sin; always have cc break off CD.

 

Now; counter to FD/ED for DoT specs that doesn't involve trying to run away while tears are collected in a jar, plz&thanx.

I do that, problem is phase walk. I also like to use Freezing Force to hunt for stealth, gives me warning if they are close. Tamaster from maven literally kicked my *** so hard, avoided Focused Defense every time .

In a 1v1 situation this is very unfavorable to not have any heals from FD etc, I just leap to the nearest target IF there is a nearest target.

I used to run Vigilance on my guardian. I even ran Vigilance prior to Focus getting nerfed. Thing about Vigilance that annoyed me was the kiting issue. That's helped a lot since BW gave us 15% increased movement speed. But here's the kicker: I have recently respec'd my dps guardian back to Focus, and I feel like I have more survivability, and I KNOW that I have more burst. With a correct rotation/priority, you can pop off 10k+ sweeps very consistently and now that Focused Defense is a decent DCD, we even get a cooldown reduction on it. Focus is not the same spec it was pre-2.7.

I am not sure why everyone hopped on the Vigilance band wagon. It was fun pre-2.0, but now its just stupid easy. I feel like it's become even easier than the pre-2.0 Focus spec. Saber Throw, Leap, Master Strike, Overhead Slash, Sundering Strike, Plasma Brand, Blade Storm, Force Push, Leap, Master Strike, Dispatch. If you're target isnt dead by then, either you need to regear or stop attacking tanks with healers behind them.

Regardless, good work, nice guide, but here's my $0.02: change the title away from DPS Guardian, because Focus is still ever viable, if not even more viable than Vigilance for its sheer amount of burst. Something like Vigilance PvP Guide should do.

Good job, Rydarus!

I need the formula.

The formula for Blade Barrier is Ability Healing Min/Max = 1 * HealingBonus + 0.05 * 2685.

Where 1 is the HealingCoefficient, 0.05 is the StandardHealthPercentMin/Max (min and max are the same for Blade Barrier) and 2685 is the StandardHealth at Player Level 55.

source

As absorb damage it has no chance to crit and receives no benefit from surge.

I don't strictly know how you measured your Blade Barrier as a tank, but based on what you said:

I'll grab a smash monkey friend and see if I can average the damage mitigated by BB to his smashes.

I know for a fact that 1500 is where Dread Forged PVE tank gear absorbs

I will infer that you looked at a log subsequent to a boss fight to measure the amount it absorbs in PvE Tank Gear, which you would be unable to replicated appropriately with equivalent DPS Gear and that you tested the DPS Gear with another player instead. I'd warn against changing the variable for the incoming attacker for two reasons. First is expertise, which will not only modify the incoming damage amount, but also the heals received while in combat with enemy players. The second is trauma, which is a persistent factor in PvP at all combat times, lowering heals received by a flat 35%. Where the amount falls exactly is supposedly calculated by Trauma (35%) - Expertise (up to 20.38%). So comparatively, you're suffering a 40%-55% disparity combining the Set Bonus and Trauma without even calculating stat loss between Dread Forged and Berzerker.

As an aside, because % healing abilities, most healing cooldowns, and absorb ability cannot crit, your pool of competing enhancements stats (accuracy, alacrity, shielding, surge) is narrowed to simply shielding and if you're stacking power to boost self healing, you are forced to purchase every single enhancements (a total of 7) from the PvP Ranked Enhancement Vendor for 2000 Ranked Warzone Coms and 800 Warzone Coms a piece (14000 Ranked / 5600 Warzone total OR 47600 Warzone ONLY Total).

The formula for Blade Barrier is Ability Healing Min/Max = 1 * HealingBonus + 0.05 * 2685.

 

Where 1 is the HealingCoefficient, 0.05 is the StandardHealthPercentMin/Max (min and max are the same for Blade Barrier) and 2685 is the StandardHealth at Player Level 55.

 

source

 

As absorb damage it has no chance to crit and receives no benefit from surge.

 

I don't strictly know how you measured your Blade Barrier as a tank, but based on what you said:

 

 

I will infer that you looked at a log subsequent to a boss fight to measure the amount it absorbs in PvE Tank Gear, which you would be unable to replicated appropriately with equivalent DPS Gear and that you tested the DPS Gear with another player instead. I'd warn against changing the variable for the incoming attacker for two reasons. First is expertise, which will not only modify the incoming damage amount, but also the heals received while in combat with enemy players. The second is trauma, which is a persistent factor in PvP at all combat times, lowering heals received by a flat 35%. Where the amount falls exactly is supposedly calculated by Trauma (35%) - Expertise (up to 20.38%). So comparatively, you're suffering a 40%-55% disparity combining the Set Bonus and Trauma without even calculating stat loss between Dread Forged and Berzerker.

 

As an aside, because % healing abilities, most healing cooldowns, and absorb ability cannot crit, your pool of competing enhancements stats (accuracy, alacrity, shielding, surge) is narrowed to simply shielding and if you're stacking power to boost self healing, you are forced to purchase every single enhancements (a total of 7) from the PvP Ranked Enhancement Vendor for 2000 Ranked Warzone Coms and 800 Warzone Coms a piece (14000 Ranked / 5600 Warzone total OR 47600 Warzone ONLY Total).

I just used a combat log and just got myself hit by a single target high damage ability to see how much torparse said it absorbs. It usually was around 1500 (My double proc relics affected it significantly). At any rate I don't plan on actually continuing the defense portion of the guide since the hybrid spec is more popular and base tank plays the same as DPS tank besides higher damage.

I used to run Vigilance on my guardian. I even ran Vigilance prior to Focus getting nerfed. Thing about Vigilance that annoyed me was the kiting issue. That's helped a lot since BW gave us 15% increased movement speed. But here's the kicker: I have recently respec'd my dps guardian back to Focus, and I feel like I have more survivability, and I KNOW that I have more burst. With a correct rotation/priority, you can pop off 10k+ sweeps very consistently and now that Focused Defense is a decent DCD, we even get a cooldown reduction on it. Focus is not the same spec it was pre-2.7.

 

I am not sure why everyone hopped on the Vigilance band wagon. It was fun pre-2.0, but now its just stupid easy. I feel like it's become even easier than the pre-2.0 Focus spec. Saber Throw, Leap, Master Strike, Overhead Slash, Sundering Strike, Plasma Brand, Blade Storm, Force Push, Leap, Master Strike, Dispatch. If you're target isnt dead by then, either you need to regear or stop attacking tanks with healers behind them.

 

Regardless, good work, nice guide, but here's my $0.02: change the title away from DPS Guardian, because Focus is still ever viable, if not even more viable than Vigilance for its sheer amount of burst. Something like Vigilance PvP Guide should do.

 

Good job, Rydarus!

Can't change titles, I don't plan on writing something for focus yet since I don't run it nearly enough. Also i despise focus for the AOE DR weakness