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OK this is getting rather silly regarding hard mode Flashpoint GF

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
OK this is getting rather silly regarding hard mode Flashpoint GF

Callaron's Avatar


Callaron
07.10.2014 , 11:37 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Warrgames View Post
I think its that the SI/JC think the knockback does 1000 times more damage than any other AoE.

All joking aside, I believe the really issue is the fact that SI/JC get the knockback at lvl 3 and it becomes part of their rotation and these knockback spammer fail to understand a proper rotation.
Yep. It's also undeniably useful at those levels. And even on the higher levels when you're playing solo.
Of course solo you are facing 90% normal mobs, that get knocked flat on their *** for a while. Which provides a nice tactical advantage. In a Flashpoint you're up against mostly strong, elite and champion mobs that just bounce back a few steps (and probably laugh their *** off).
Thanks for showing us you listen to our feedback, Bioware!
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Suggestion for letting us add certain story characters to our Strongholds.

discosoc's Avatar


discosoc
07.10.2014 , 11:46 AM | #52
I stopped tanking because I got tired of dealing with DPS that insists on pulling mobs, or refusing to focus fire, or not bothering to interrupt, while complaining non-stop about how tanks are all drama queens. Also -- and I don't know for certain, but I still suspect -- healing is not very forgiving in this game.

Another downside was that my Vanguard tank had a hell of a time doing dailies in that spec. Either I brought my healing companion and very slowly whittled down mob health, or I brought DPS and had a decent kill (but still slow) time with tons of near-deaths. So basically, in almost all aspects of PvE, being a tank was simply not rewarding.

tharbison's Avatar


tharbison
07.10.2014 , 11:50 AM | #53
To be fair, it's not entirely 'bad dps'. I leveled my last Vanguard tank almost exclusively thru GF FP's and heorics. For the most part, GF & pug groups are ok. Yeah, you get occasional derps, but not only dps. I expect the same can be said about tanks and healers too. And I'm not talking about endgame, I don't play it and can't speak to that.

You also have to consider the anxiety of the tank being the group 'leader', and expected to know the FP inside and out. I believe that's a big part of the reason tanks don't queue either. There's a lot of pressure, which creates stress. Most people I know play to have fun, not get stressed out

discosoc's Avatar


discosoc
07.10.2014 , 11:52 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthTHC View Post
Won't work.

I play a tank. I love to tank. Just not in PUGs.

There is no level of temporary buff, nor level of money (even 1,000,000 credits per successful run), and no amount of commendations that would get me to tank a PUG. I don't need the buff; I can already faceroll everything in the game. I don't need the money because I know how to play the credit game. I certainly don't need the commendations because I tank for a guild that does respectfully well at endgame.

The way to inspire tanks to play their roles is... well, we tanks are already inspired to play our roles.

So the way to inspire tanks to play their roles in a group of randoms is for that group of randoms to learn how to play without sucking. That's the incentive. Make the experience fun for tanks instead of hell for tanks. Then we'll queue with you more.

Other tanks on this thread have already outlined the issues and what all you non-tanks need to do to improve... to inspire us to queue more.

But... as you said... we ain't never gonna see that.
It could easily work. Blizzard had to do something similar with WoW years ago, because of the exact same problem. People weren't playing tanks and, to a lesser degree, weren't playing healers. So they added a bonus satchel for pugging as a needed role, that had a pretty good chance of dropping things like pets and mounts. Many of the mounts, in particular, were otherwise very difficult or time consuming to obtain.

SWtOR has a slightly different economy so most things from the cartel market are dirt cheap on the GTN unless they are one of the few chase items, but if Bioware introduced some unique items that were only obtainable through queuing up in GF as a needed role, it could very well result in massive improvements.

discosoc's Avatar


discosoc
07.10.2014 , 11:56 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by tharbison View Post
To be fair, it's not entirely 'bad dps'. I leveled my last Vanguard tank almost exclusively thru GF FP's and heorics. For the most part, GF & pug groups are ok. Yeah, you get occasional derps, but not only dps. I expect the same can be said about tanks and healers too. And I'm not talking about endgame, I don't play it and can't speak to that.

You also have to consider the anxiety of the tank being the group 'leader', and expected to know the FP inside and out. I believe that's a big part of the reason tanks don't queue either. There's a lot of pressure, which creates stress. Most people I know play to have fun, not get stressed out
Your last part sort of ties into the "bad dps" argument. Tanks aren't really given a chance to learn the FP inside and out, or even figure out how to pace their pull speed, because the dps so often won't let them. And if the tank asks them to stop pulling or wait for the tank to get agro or whatever, suddenly it means the tank is some diva trying to push everyone around. If the tank stays silent instead, he gets labeled as a bad tank who needs to "L2P."

tharbison's Avatar


tharbison
07.10.2014 , 11:57 AM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by discosoc View Post
..., but if Bioware introduced some unique items that were only obtainable through queuing up in GF as a needed role, it could very well result in massive improvements.
I agree. As long as the items were desirable. Maybe just put a slot machine at the end of the FP that only the tank could use - it would spit out cartel coins, mounts, or whatever!

Thoronmir's Avatar


Thoronmir
07.10.2014 , 12:02 PM | #57
I tried playing a tank once. Once. I deleted him after his first Esseles run and haven't made anything capable of tanking since. I hate tanking. I've hated tanking in every MMO I've ever played. If my choice was to either play a tank in any MMO or be forced to play Hello Kitty: Island Adventure as my only videogame ... well, "Hello Kitty!"

But I do play healers. I love healers. More than half of my 16 characters are healers. Most of those are Sages or Sorcerers. Having played only DPS in all my previous MMOs, I was a little shocked how much I enjoyed healing in SWTOR. I only made my first Sage because I started playing SWTOR with two friends who had already claimed the Tank and DPS roles in our little triumvirate.

As much as I hate tanking, I have great respect for tanks. In my PUG experience, they usually seem to know what they're doing. It's like my maid. I don't enjoy cleaning my bathroom, but I'm damn glad I have someone willing to do it. My "default" setting in FPs or OPs is "Stick to the Tank" ... if the DPS want to wander off and attack other stuff for grins and giggles, that's on them. Of course, all such rules are subject to a coherent plan articulated at the start of the run.

I play Hunters mostly in LOTRO and I have a little maxim my friends seem to enjoy: "If my Hunter hits something with his sword, our plan has gone terribly wrong." I feel the same about my Sages/Sorcs. If my healer is using an offensive ability, something has probably gone wrong. Not that I'm above or unwilling to add a little DPS for the cause if it does not interfere with my healing. But I'm pretty happy if I can just cycle through my shield, cleanse, and healing skills. All my friends and Guildmates know ... Thor's light saber is just for show.

I hadn't really PUG'd in a long time until recently. I started a new Sage a few weeks ago and he has yet to step foot on Taris yet. At 32, he's been leveling through FPs ... PUG FPs. So far, so good. No big problems with the groups. A few additions to the Ignore list, but more attitude than incompetence. I plan to keep PUGing with this Sage until I can no longer tolerate it. My 55s run only with my Guilds (we have Republic and Imperial Guilds).

TL; DR: Tanking sucks; Tanks rule; Healing is wicked fun; PUGs are a crap shoot.

SBJones's Avatar


SBJones
07.10.2014 , 12:02 PM | #58
You want to know why there is a shortage of tanks? Because it's a waste of our time to queue for you.

The reason everyone "sucks" at max level is because the game is designed for you to solo your way there with no other skill than facerolling the keyboard.

You're right, we are all in guilds with DPS and Healers who know how to play as a team.

DarthTHC's Avatar


DarthTHC
07.10.2014 , 12:04 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by tharbison View Post
I agree. As long as the items were desirable. Maybe just put a slot machine at the end of the FP that only the tank could use - it would spit out cartel coins, mounts, or whatever!
Can we put a machine in at the beginning of the flashpoint that issues a competency exam for all characters and automatically kicks and bans from GF for 24 hours those who don't pass the test for their role, including being properly geared and specced?

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
07.10.2014 , 12:05 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by tharbison View Post
I agree. As long as the items were desirable. Maybe just put a slot machine at the end of the FP that only the tank could use - it would spit out cartel coins, mounts, or whatever!
Those tokens for legacy gear