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Question: Initial Aggro Opener Skill -Should i Taunt or NOT?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Question: Initial Aggro Opener Skill -Should i Taunt or NOT?

vashyoung's Avatar


vashyoung
07.08.2014 , 04:12 AM | #1
Backstory

Long time ago, ive got an unpleasant comment for my tanking skill on my first character, a sith assassin tank, by that time i made her dps instead due to the fact that im having a hard time making the tanking works for here, as stayed dps until now, So i think to myself why now try to tank again since im already experience for more than a year now, so i created a jedi guardian, im finally doing great and having a blast with it.

So this is the question
Its all about TAUNT, some people say that DONT USE TAUNT AS AN OPENER AGGRO, ive heard and read this a lot BUT when i read something in REDDIT that TAUNT is also an AGGRO MULTIPLIER, if its really an Aggro Multiplier then TAUNT is really good as an opener, along with Force Sweep and Hilt Strike, you will generate more aggro since you got a multiplier buff.

Any thoughts?
Me sing a song in our Final Exam:
When I find myself in trouble, my classmate came to me, speaking the word of wisdom, its letter B, letter B!

Tegual's Avatar


Tegual
07.08.2014 , 04:23 AM | #2
You never use a taunt to open with however after you have used some of your abilities to gain agro then you taunt.

As you have said taunt is an agro multiplier so taunting first when you have 0 treat means 0*110% (or what ever the agro muliplier is) is 0.

Basically you want to use your highest threat abilities as an opening rotation then taunt then move onto your normal rotation.

However, depending on your group (if they significantly outgear you) you may find it harder to keep threat so make sure that you are guarding the highest DPSer (not the healer UNLESS they absolutely need it) and if your off tanking and wont be needed to taunt within the next 30secs or so you can also intercede (not sure what the jedi version is but it lowers threat) someone.

LilyJedi's Avatar


LilyJedi
07.08.2014 , 07:37 AM | #3
All that opening with Taunt will do is to make sure you have 6 seconds (4 GCDs) to build up enough threat over what the DPS+Heals do. Whereas, by doing a high threat opener THEN using Taunt, you will both multiply up your threat, and give yourself 4 GCDs worth of further threat moves before the rest of the group can possibly pull aggro.

In your case, I believe it would be: (from Stealth) Force Pull+Force Speed, Shock, approach, Wither, Thrash (+another Thrash if you didnt get a Proc), Shock, Recklessness+Force Lightning, then Taunt. If you have DPS that will manage to rip aggro from you before you start channeling the Force Lightning, you may need to throw the Taunt in after Wither.


(Juggernaut Intercede = Guardian Leap for Jedi Guardian).

Leafy_Bug's Avatar


Leafy_Bug
07.08.2014 , 08:01 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by LilyJedi View Post
All that opening with Taunt will do is to make sure you have 6 seconds (4 GCDs) to build up enough threat over what the DPS+Heals do. Whereas, by doing a high threat opener THEN using Taunt, you will both multiply up your threat, and give yourself 4 GCDs worth of further threat moves before the rest of the group can possibly pull aggro.

In your case, I believe it would be: (from Stealth) Force Pull+Force Speed, Shock, approach, Wither, Thrash (+another Thrash if you didnt get a Proc), Shock, Recklessness+Force Lightning, then Taunt. If you have DPS that will manage to rip aggro from you before you start channeling the Force Lightning, you may need to throw the Taunt in after Wither.


(Juggernaut Intercede = Guardian Leap for Jedi Guardian).

Your rotation is situational at best and not entirely correct when it comes to shadow/assassins openers. The only debate on the opener on these forums is using slowtime before project or vice versa but chain adding taunts after the right globals is accepted. I direct you to the work of KBN on how to hold aggro on a shadow and how to lock the cycle with an aoe taunt. If the current fight does not allow you to lock your cycle with an aoe taunt there are various tips and tricks you can use by not even taunting. I used to hold aggro on thrasher without taunts as a shadow tank.

Mr_Fuzzle's Avatar


Mr_Fuzzle
07.08.2014 , 10:43 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by vashyoung View Post
Backstory

Long time ago, ive got an unpleasant comment for my tanking skill on my first character, a sith assassin tank, by that time i made her dps instead due to the fact that im having a hard time making the tanking works for here, as stayed dps until now, So i think to myself why now try to tank again since im already experience for more than a year now, so i created a jedi guardian, im finally doing great and having a blast with it.

So this is the question
Its all about TAUNT, some people say that DONT USE TAUNT AS AN OPENER AGGRO, ive heard and read this a lot BUT when i read something in REDDIT that TAUNT is also an AGGRO MULTIPLIER, if its really an Aggro Multiplier then TAUNT is really good as an opener, along with Force Sweep and Hilt Strike, you will generate more aggro since you got a multiplier buff.

Any thoughts?
This has been beaten to death many times. Never open with a Taunt. You multiply the threat on the target which is ZERO to become ZERO threat still.

Optimal opener for a Guardian assuming you don't need Saber Reflect or your AoE Taunt in the first part of the fight is as follows. (Blade Storm and Hilt Strike are interchangeable IMO)

Combat Focus > Force Leap > Force Sweep + Saber Reflect > Guardian Slash + Riposte > Hilt Strike > Blade Storm + Taunt > Master Strike > Riposte + Force Stasis > Sundering Strike + Challenging Call > Force Sweep > Guardian Slash + Riposte

So you do use a Taunt early on in the rotation, but it's not used as the opener. If you need your AoE taunt early on in a fight, delay your initial taunt until immediately after Master Strike.

Leafy_Bug's Avatar


Leafy_Bug
07.08.2014 , 12:49 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Mr_Fuzzle View Post
This has been beaten to death many times. Never open with a Taunt. You multiply the threat on the target which is ZERO to become ZERO threat still.

Optimal opener for a Guardian assuming you don't need Saber Reflect or your AoE Taunt in the first part of the fight is as follows. (Blade Storm and Hilt Strike are interchangeable IMO)

Combat Focus > Force Leap > Force Sweep + Saber Reflect > Guardian Slash + Riposte > Hilt Strike > Blade Storm + Taunt > Master Strike > Riposte + Force Stasis > Sundering Strike + Challenging Call > Force Sweep > Guardian Slash + Riposte

So you do use a Taunt early on in the rotation, but it's not used as the opener. If you need your AoE taunt early on in a fight, delay your initial taunt until immediately after Master Strike.


**saber reflect does not generate threat if you do not get hit. There have been instances on my guardian when I activated reflect and my threat did not go up as expected. On the same boss, when he actually hit me through it, my threat moved up as it should. I am not an expert guardian tank because I find it very slow and fixed 'needs a target to leap' so I won't venture to advise on this class.

sanctified's Avatar


sanctified
07.08.2014 , 04:22 PM | #7
Saber reflect is a little wonky. The tool bar says you gain threat as soon as you activate it (which would imply that it works like an AOE taunt) but like the guy above says, you get nothing out of it if you aren't already being attacked. So if you have go-go DPS that pushes too fast, you're boned.

I always use mine after a taunt. Probably overcautious of me, but nothing stings worse than a wasted Saber reflect.
Playing since October 1st, 2011. Squad 238 for life.

vashyoung's Avatar


vashyoung
07.08.2014 , 09:30 PM | #8
TAUNT multiplier come from your current aggro generated, starting taunt at as opener will actually do less threat, ok i understand now, ty guys
Me sing a song in our Final Exam:
When I find myself in trouble, my classmate came to me, speaking the word of wisdom, its letter B, letter B!

slafko's Avatar


slafko
07.09.2014 , 03:56 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Mr_Fuzzle View Post
Never open with a Taunt.
Amen.
I see their R2 droid and I grab it. No, you can't have it back, silly rabbit!

jade_de_aguilera's Avatar


jade_de_aguilera
07.09.2014 , 05:25 AM | #10
No you should not taunt. Log you fights and check TPS for the first 20 sec and you will be convinced by mathematics.
As every rule there are some exceptions ofc.