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New mission for HM and NM content

baskboy's Avatar

06.18.2014 , 08:17 AM | #1
Good day all

I was thinking HM and NM content everyone can enter without restriction or anything, exactly Same for ranked pvp.
Pugging hardmode content is not recommanded on most servers beqeus you dont now people skils to the point of dps healing or tanking.

I now many use teamspeak or other comunication service, this should stil be possible if you are going for HM content. Even if your Pugging

What my post is About...

How do you now if random people can do HM? I mean gear in swtor dossent mean anything you can buy best gear by doing some SM OPS HM FP and yes some skill there....''sarcasm''

What i would like to see happening is like follow:

Short version: Add a mission to unlock cartain HM/NM content like tfb/s&v and df&dp hm/NM
By doing a mission where you need to do a healing dps and tanking check.
no elitest idee just basic sense, you now you can do your role correct you can help team and dont wasted other people time!

Long version: it would work as following you wil get a call on your ship/upcoming housing That you been selected for mission or something That you need to report to player X (would like to see adv trainer there ^^)
When you arive he wil talk About new mission and you need training so you can just enter a basic room.
No Windows sqaure room circle in middle with the adv class personal trainer in the middle and you wil need to do a test to pass from healing 1 target to multible targets for X time without them dieing or dpsing 1 target and killing some Adds before time of over and tanking 1 boss and keep Add on you for X time. If you pass you wil be aboe to to the content if not you wil need to improve.

I hope more people see the posative factor in this as bioware is making SM easy with valor......
Now there need to be set a good boundry between hardmode content and storymode

Sorry for my bad english but just wanted to give my idee i thought it was pretty cool

umbak's Avatar

06.18.2014 , 09:32 AM | #2
The problem there is it only tests output. With the hardmodes and older NiMs can be mostly outgeared simply by having 180 rating gear meaning throughput checks are not usually the reason groups fail.
Most groups seem to fall apart on either mechanical coordination or lack of dps/healing due to unnecessary movement rather than poor mastery of the class.

Just my 2 cents.
Dostus/Maloney/Maoulkrieger - Drop it like it's Hoth EU Red Eclipse

Methoxa's Avatar

06.18.2014 , 09:44 AM | #3
Most operations have a gear check boss in the beginning i.e Dash'roode, Nefra, Bestia. The best example would be Nefra. Tanks have to receive as least dmg possible, Healers have to heal + cleanse and dps have to do good dps ( speaking of nm ),

What you are asking for is basically a dummy fight at least from the dps point of view. How high you want to set those dps required? For Fortress + palace nm it should be 3.7k dps. Never saw a random doing those dps. So basically no one would be effecient enough (because of lack of equip + skill). The other thing is that some ppl are experienced with those Operations. I could do it while asleep. But a random might have never seen it, he doesnt know what to do exactly he doesnt now how to time his rotation perfectly for the individual bosses which leads to a dps loss, in case the random was a dps. So he wouldnt be @ 3.7k dps but maybe at 3k @nefra and even lower at other bosses. Regardless on how hard you make thesse trials in order to be allowed to enter nm raids the random will need to be carried if he is not experienced with the individual tactics. And this needs a long time to learn. Not only the mechanics but also your perfect rotation throughout the whole fight.

ZentheSecond's Avatar

06.18.2014 , 09:51 AM | #4
For Dps, this might seem viable but that's harsh. Many fight, EG Nefra, the Dps do nothing but sit there and hit their abilities in the right order at the right time and only have to worry about a single mechanic. But then NiM Draxus, hello Dps clustermess. They need to coordinate interrupts, be in the right place at the right time. Then need to pump out a huge spike of damage on the boss while he is in, along with in some groups coordinating with tanks to help handle dismantlers.

Healing as well, it would just prove that they know how to put out healing numbers. But do they know how to cleanse and more importantly what their chosen class can cleanse. Do they also know when and where they'll need to be during a fight to handle tank healing (Grob's knockback for example). Do they also know where not to be so they do not get cleaved/caught. All this would not be tested.

Then with tanks it's even harder as they have the worst (or best depending on your view) job in an Op. they have to hold the boss. So they need to know how a mechanic is done, like Bestia's stacks and how a Sin/Shadow can avoid them or how Overrides is great vs Raptus to avoid all manner of things. It also requires the most adaptiveness of any class, as a tank you truly need to Adapt or Perish and that is on a pull by pull basis. No two boss pulls should ever be the same at the NiM level with the slight RNG that Bioware has in their game.

I do agree though that some sort of gate is needed before you can try the harder content. Perhaps something like "in order to do HM DF you need to clear SM DF in X time from pulling Nefra to killing Brontes". Just a thought, but it would make groups better if they cannot progress to HM or NiM till they have a handle on the basics they need for their next tier.

-- Hanakoo - Powertech - DPS/Tank --
-- Natsumii - Assassin - Tank --
-- Kaijėn - Sniper - DPS --

venomlash's Avatar

06.18.2014 , 10:21 AM | #5
I'm going to concur that gearcheck is less important than knowing mechanics. A good group can carry an undergeared rando, but you can't carry stupid!

bluecheesebandit's Avatar

06.18.2014 , 11:33 AM | #6
No. This is the community's responsibility. A raid leader should be able to take whatever group and learn how competent the group is through the actual mechanics of the operation. Gear is less important than the ability to perform in an operation and work as a team, which is something that only the operation itself can test.

At the very most you could unlock an achievement from such mission or completing a gate, but in NO WAY should this limit your actual participation in harder content.

jrwellworth's Avatar

06.18.2014 , 01:18 PM | #7
Hey all--

I am gonna go out on a limb here and say that there is a kinda "training room" for the roles that, in conjunction with a couple other things I will mention, will train you up and let you know when you are ready to progress. The 'training room' I am referring to is story mode ops 8 man. With the implementation of the new group finder 8 man this is easier now then ever. Now I know that not everyone is, well, I guess not everyone is social or folks may have a hard time finding a group or guild, the repeated "LF OPs" I see spammed over and over in gen chat on the fleet by the same many people every evening, in my mind, confirm this. But if you want to know if your ready for hard mode, or you wanna get better and progress, let me tell you a way that I would recommend to any friend or new guild mate

Find or form a team, if you have been pugging into ops for awhile, then you probably have some folks on your friends list, see if you can find some like minded individuals who wanna start playing together. Barring this, I would suggest you find a guild that runs operations. Chances are that they may have a spot for you or can start bringing you along. This way you can learn the mechanics of the fights, team work, team dynamics and many good raiding habits that you should be picking up from your team. Now I know that not every guild is like this, but I bet if you looked hard enough you could find one.

Download Team-speak 3, mumble or ventrillo, these three team voice communication programs are the ones most commonly used in the game. No one will ever let you into a hard mode operation without voip. They are awesome for story mode as well, when you are learning. Being in voice contact with your raid party allows you to make instant corrections and be coached and given advice in a much better manner then typing. If I am training a new guildie, I want them in ts3, unless there is a real life issue, such as no headset and sleeping baby, broke mic etc. I will say tho, that the broke mic excuse doesn't really work cause all I need you to do is hear to learn. Also they are free, at least team-speak is.

Parsec/Tor-parse. I am not going to go into a large explanation about what a parser is, but it allows you to see your: damage per second if you are a dps, and if it needs improvement then your team can guide you and help you bring up your numbers. Heals per second and effective heals per second (?) I am new to healing and have not used parsec for it yet, but others can explain how this works and helps. Also, threat per second and damage taken per second. This is for us tanks. It can also do much more, but these are the basics. It can allow you and your team to locate any problem areas and help you improve. They are also free, so its really a win win.

This part should be obvious but to some it's not. Read, read, read. For every class and spec there is a ton of info out there on the best builds, best way to gear for different aspects of the game, different rotations etc.. There is also written guides for every operation in the game and it's different modes of difficulty, not to mention the countless videos out there from every roles point of view. There really is no excuse to not be prepared in this way.

Op, you said you think there should be a system in place to prevent people from gimping their team, and as a way to let them know if they are ready for hard mode content. The things I have I have stated above is the 'training room' you want, it's all already here, but instead of the game saying your ready due to some programmed trail, it's up to YOU to train yourself, and every other perspective raider that is just testing the waters or wanting to start hard mode. If you find yourself a team to run with, be open to learning and new things, pretty soon you will know exactly when you are ready t advance.

I am sorry for the wall of text, seeing the op's post, I thought I could share a proven way to advance and progress.
Everything stated above is my own personal opinion. Get out there and raid guys. Good luck.


P.S. Don't stand in the red circles.
Sandari-65 (kinetic combat) +more <Aeternium Ascension> Dread Slayer


psandak's Avatar

06.18.2014 , 02:12 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by jrwellworth View Post
This part should be obvious but to some it's not. Read, read, read. For every class and spec there is a ton of info out there on the best builds, best way to gear for different aspects of the game, different rotations etc.. There is also written guides for every operation in the game and it's different modes of difficulty, not to mention the countless videos out there from every roles point of view. There really is no excuse to not be prepared in this way.
I agree with everything you said, but I would like to comment on the above. While I agree that using guides helps: reading and watching videos only goes so far; in the end it comes down to each player's execution of what the guides recommend.

I remember - back in WoW days - there was a boss (cannot recall which) that ALL the guides said must be done a certain way. Well that way was not working for my guild raid group. We banged our heads against that same wall for a couple of weeks. Until we took a step back, realized what we were doing was not working, and decided to do something different. Three attempts later the boss was down.

Lastly, IMO going over a fight in intricate detail is counterproductive. especially in fights with many phases going over each one is time consuming and becomes white noise over time. I remember an EC run, we got to Kephes and the leader said, "we are running out of time. Instead of going over the fight ahead of time, I'll just explain as we go." we nearly beat Kephes in one shot. K.I.S.S. applies. The point is, nothing teaches like experience.
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