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Kaggath Rulebook


Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.03.2014 , 04:29 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
warning with the rules as Is I doubt any one will choose a "major" ground force. If its going to be 10k vs 5k +5k there is a clear and distinct Disadvantage to choosing a "Major" ground force, including both having equal numbers as well as additionally having less diversity. there is no reason for some one to choose a "Major" ground force (not like it was a popular choice before as I was litterally the only one that even saw the potential of a Major force now its worthless might as well not exist as an option) of course talking classic mode here.


Edit: Also Rule number 62. Dont you think that leaves the Light capital and the Heavy Capital a little close to each other.... i mean it could work, but I am cautious of this.


Edit: Rule Number 64. GOOD CHOICE

Edit: be cautious of rule 85 as worded potential exploits could be had.


Edit: Rules 89-91 could cause some difficulty in building a faction, suggest help be provided to those that have a unit they want but arent sure of planets .


Final Edit: read through all the rules concerns listed .
1. A major ground force is anything above 10,000. So that could easily be 100,000 - though I will probably put a cap on it. All I can say is that anyone choosing a ground force 10,000 men strong e.g. a clone legion, should reassess their choices as they could opt for a smaller clone force, or take up an entire sector army.

However I wanted to make Minor Forces actually minor, and Major forces more relevant. As in this Kaggath most (I think you were the only one who didn't) choice Minor Forces, many around the 10K mark, which really should have been major or reduced to below 5,000. However this is just for now, that tournament is a long way away and it may change.

In fact, I'm thinking of fully adopting the Battlegrounds approach for Classic Mode, but we'll see how that works out.

2. If you mean in terms of folks choosing a Heavy, followed by a Light that is practically a heavy refer to Rule #71:

#71 Any Heavy Capital Ships classifiable below the class of Destroyer will be multiplied accordingly: Heavy Cruisers x2, Cruisers x4 and Frigates x8, Corvettes x16. Light Capital Ships beneath a Heavy Cruiser will be multiplied accordingly: Cruiser x2, Frigates x4, Corvettes x8.

Heavy or Light, the smaller the vessel, the more of it you will have, I feel that balances that out. The Heavy/Light classifications become in part arbitary in that sense, its just a way of providing the faction maker with two choices and encouraging them to build a stable, properly proportioned naval force - if you understand my meaning.

3. Well we'll see, I allowed CorSec (almost wrote C-Sec lol) and they are about as bad@ss as you get. I'm not sure I'd allow them again but we shall see, it will be up to by discretion to decide when judicial force becomes intelligence agency/armed force and I'll apply restrictions/bans accordingly. But again CorSec ain't that bad.

4. Its pretty much the same as before, so it probably won't cause much issue. I'd be more worried about the tight (and I mean tight) restrictions on Battleground choices, I'm already anticipating the endless rejections.

But hey, we'll get by through trial and error, and I'm always happy to help.

No issues with Rule #66 then? Good, good.

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
06.03.2014 , 04:43 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
1. A major ground force is anything above 10,000. So that could easily be 100,000 - though I will probably put a cap on it. All I can say is that anyone choosing a ground force 10,000 men strong e.g. a clone legion, should reassess their choices as they could opt for a smaller clone force, or take up an entire sector army.

However I wanted to make Minor Forces actually minor, and Major forces more relevant. As in this Kaggath most (I think you were the only one who didn't) choice Minor Forces, many around the 10K mark, which really should have been major or reduced to below 5,000. However this is just for now, that tournament is a long way away and it may change.

In fact, I'm thinking of fully adopting the Battlegrounds approach for Classic Mode, but we'll see how that works out.

2. If you mean in terms of folks choosing a Heavy, followed by a Light that is practically a heavy refer to Rule #71:

#71 Any Heavy Capital Ships classifiable below the class of Destroyer will be multiplied accordingly: Heavy Cruisers x2, Cruisers x4 and Frigates x8, Corvettes x16. Light Capital Ships beneath a Heavy Cruiser will be multiplied accordingly: Cruiser x2, Frigates x4, Corvettes x8.

Heavy or Light, the smaller the vessel, the more of it you will have, I feel that balances that out. The Heavy/Light classifications become in part arbitary in that sense, its just a way of providing the faction maker with two choices and encouraging them to build a stable, properly proportioned naval force - if you understand my meaning.

3. Well we'll see, I allowed CorSec (almost wrote C-Sec lol) and they are about as bad@ss as you get. I'm not sure I'd allow them again but we shall see, it will be up to by discretion to decide when judicial force becomes intelligence agency/armed force and I'll apply restrictions/bans accordingly. But again CorSec ain't that bad.

4. Its pretty much the same as before, so it probably won't cause much issue. I'd be more worried about the tight (and I mean tight) restrictions on Battleground choices, I'm already anticipating the endless rejections.

But hey, we'll get by through trial and error, and I'm always happy to help.

No issues with Rule #66 then? Good, good.
Ok I miss read number 1 then.

And like I said I could see the Heavy and Light ships working as is... just cautious is all.


I have no issues with Rule #66 as I see Rule 102 and its subsidaries act as balancing factors behind rule 66.

Silenceo's Avatar


Silenceo
06.03.2014 , 04:55 PM | #13
What about rare materials? If you do not possess a planet that is known for producing them, guessing buying them over the black market or some such is the only way? *Or import it*

For example, say you had a Mandalorian focused faction but you opted to base it where they can not mine Mandalorian Iron, such as....say.....Duros *for randoms sake*. Would they still be able to produce Mandalorian Iron armor if they were allowed to import *or buy on black market* the Mandalorian Iron? *granted it would limit what else they could get over the black market, so that faction would likely not have any ability to other object due to how expensive it would be*

Or would it be like the case with the Rakatan Harrowers where they start with a decent amount of Mandalorian Iron/armor and eventually run out/ can not make more?

Also, are there any restrictions on what can be considered a organization? Other than the listed possibilities, could it be something less obvious? *Just trying to see the limits here, seems slightly vague, or is it meant like that so basically anything that is not a supplier would be eligible?*

#28 The role of an organisation is to provide anything else such as intelligence, criminal influence, black market assets, technology etc. they are also able to provide armour and armaments but not in large quantities, nor can they be a manufacturer.

Concerning the inability to have a Major and a Minor force I was going back through the rules and found this,

#53 You can choose one Major Ground Force with one Minor, or three Minor Ground Forces.

*sigh* reading rules always seems to zone me out, so I might have missed some clarifying notes later on. Or I might just be mixing up the classic and battleground rulings...

Question: according to

#48 Vessels within a naval force will be piloted by the relevant ground force i.e. a ground force with a naval force equivalent e.g. Stormtroopers would provide the Imperial Navy. If more than one ground force can provide, then it is up to the faction maker to choose.

Does that mean if in the previous scenario with the Venator and the droids controlling the ship could be possible, if the ground forces for that faction were droids as well? *If I recall correctly, the Venators and droids would be able to be granted by having specific leadership members that grant access to them, correct?* Or would this be one of the situations where the original ships that the droids manned would need to be used, or would it be where the ground forces would remain droids but the crewmen would remain clones? A nit-picky question I know, but I am just attempting to clear up all of the little things that could trip me when it comes time to submit.

Side Note: In reference to

6. If its been referred to as a superweapon at any point, its a superweapon. If it hasn't, its not. Unless is glaringly obvious. I'm sure we can fall back on our own discretion and intuition to sort out any potential issues there.

I did a little more search of the weapon I was thinking of, and it turns out it was classified as a siege weapon, though it likely could still be classified as a super weapon due to its effectiveness and how it operates. *Going to consider it a super weapon until it is brought up, and discuss it then to settle it, unless you want to settle it before hand via private messages. Its more a gimmick/perk of an organization I might use, not the main reason so it doesn't really matter to me if it is not allowed either way.*
"What I unveil today will mark a new era for the Empire. We will be able to decimate the Rebels just as we did the Jedi Knights. At last the Emperor's war will be filled only with the glory and beauty of decisive victory."―Rom Mohc Never force a droid to think without numbers...

StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
06.03.2014 , 08:14 PM | #14
I liked the rulebook, everything came straight from rulings and debates made in the Kaggaths and the new Battlegrounds system is looking good.

I must say, in the Battlegrounds version I fail to notice any mention on Force-user restrictions for minor (or major) ground forces. Might want to include some or I'll show up with three minor force-sects and roflstomp everyone.

Aside from that looking good. Sorry if I haven't been posting much but I've just not had anything to say, I have been watching though, Nice win Sel and awesome match Warren.

Oh, and is Battlegrounds going to be the next tournament? I should revise my choices accordingly.
Zey: "Kal, you know that the Sith are bad news. They're evil. They've always been the cause of endless war and carnage across the galaxy."
Skirata: "Oh, that's a good one. 'My decapitations are more morally valid than your decapitations.' Only difference I can see is that they plan to end up with trillions dead, and you do-gooders manage it by accident."

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
06.03.2014 , 09:28 PM | #15
Yeah, I have no idea what's happening with the next tournament. Can we get details on that Beni, so I can start planning my faction? I don't really know what to do. Although the rulebook is helpful, it seems to have gotten me turned around and now I'm confused as to what I need to do to make my faction.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
06.03.2014 , 09:58 PM | #16
I recommend you spoiler a template for both the Battlegrounds and Classic version Beni, and inform us which one is next.
Zey: "Kal, you know that the Sith are bad news. They're evil. They've always been the cause of endless war and carnage across the galaxy."
Skirata: "Oh, that's a good one. 'My decapitations are more morally valid than your decapitations.' Only difference I can see is that they plan to end up with trillions dead, and you do-gooders manage it by accident."

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.04.2014 , 04:26 AM | #17
As I said in the OP, we are going with Battlegrounds first so those are the only rules important at this point.

Also there will be an admin thread like before with all the relevant rules and a template.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.04.2014 , 04:32 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by StarSquirrel View Post
I must say, in the Battlegrounds version I fail to notice any mention on Force-user restrictions for minor (or major) ground forces. Might want to include some or I'll show up with three minor force-sects and roflstomp everyone.
As you might have noticed, Leadership isn't split up into Classic or Battlegrounds because it applies to everything.

Including:

#14 You may have no more than two Force users in your leadership.

So basically...

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.04.2014 , 04:52 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Silenceo View Post
What about rare materials? If you do not possess a planet that is known for producing them, guessing buying them over the black market or some such is the only way? *Or import it*

For example, say you had a Mandalorian focused faction but you opted to base it where they can not mine Mandalorian Iron, such as....say.....Duros *for randoms sake*. Would they still be able to produce Mandalorian Iron armor if they were allowed to import *or buy on black market* the Mandalorian Iron? *granted it would limit what else they could get over the black market, so that faction would likely not have any ability to other object due to how expensive it would be*

Or would it be like the case with the Rakatan Harrowers where they start with a decent amount of Mandalorian Iron/armor and eventually run out/ can not make more?

Also, are there any restrictions on what can be considered a organization? Other than the listed possibilities, could it be something less obvious? *Just trying to see the limits here, seems slightly vague, or is it meant like that so basically anything that is not a supplier would be eligible?*

#28 The role of an organisation is to provide anything else such as intelligence, criminal influence, black market assets, technology etc. they are also able to provide armour and armaments but not in large quantities, nor can they be a manufacturer.

Concerning the inability to have a Major and a Minor force I was going back through the rules and found this,

#53 You can choose one Major Ground Force with one Minor, or three Minor Ground Forces.

*sigh* reading rules always seems to zone me out, so I might have missed some clarifying notes later on. Or I might just be mixing up the classic and battleground rulings...

Question: according to

#48 Vessels within a naval force will be piloted by the relevant ground force i.e. a ground force with a naval force equivalent e.g. Stormtroopers would provide the Imperial Navy. If more than one ground force can provide, then it is up to the faction maker to choose.

Does that mean if in the previous scenario with the Venator and the droids controlling the ship could be possible, if the ground forces for that faction were droids as well? *If I recall correctly, the Venators and droids would be able to be granted by having specific leadership members that grant access to them, correct?* Or would this be one of the situations where the original ships that the droids manned would need to be used, or would it be where the ground forces would remain droids but the crewmen would remain clones? A nit-picky question I know, but I am just attempting to clear up all of the little things that could trip me when it comes time to submit.

Side Note: In reference to

6. If its been referred to as a superweapon at any point, its a superweapon. If it hasn't, its not. Unless is glaringly obvious. I'm sure we can fall back on our own discretion and intuition to sort out any potential issues there.

I did a little more search of the weapon I was thinking of, and it turns out it was classified as a siege weapon, though it likely could still be classified as a super weapon due to its effectiveness and how it operates. *Going to consider it a super weapon until it is brought up, and discuss it then to settle it, unless you want to settle it before hand via private messages. Its more a gimmick/perk of an organization I might use, not the main reason so it doesn't really matter to me if it is not allowed either way.*
1. You are not entitled to raw materials:

#46 Ground Forces retain their past influences however do not have access to resources such as credits, raw materials etc. Ultimately they are dependent on the supplier for these.

So you'd have to ensure your faction was capable of acquiring that within the parameters of the rules if you felt it was needed. Whether that be through Mandalore, a supplier, or having the economic resources to buy it.

2. As long as its not in any way affiliated to production.

3. That's correct, but as I said you can't have a Minor force that counts for nothing.

4. As I said, if whatever droid force you have chosen has a navy equivalent, it can man your ships. You cannot have clones if you lack a clone force, the crew has to be in some way affiliated with one of your ground forces.

5. Save it for when you submit your faction.

StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
06.04.2014 , 10:25 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
As you might have noticed, Leadership isn't split up into Classic or Battlegrounds because it applies to everything.

Including:

#14 You may have no more than two Force users in your leadership.

So basically...
Wasn't talking leadership Beni, unless you mean the rules for Leadership apply to your military. In which case that means I can have 2 force-sects as my minor forces as long as the 3rd isn't?

Essentially I'm asking if I can have, for example, the Jensaarai, Sith Assassins, and Imperial Knights because the way the rules are written now it poses no restrictions on force-users in the Military category. (See rules 53-57 & 108)
Zey: "Kal, you know that the Sith are bad news. They're evil. They've always been the cause of endless war and carnage across the galaxy."
Skirata: "Oh, that's a good one. 'My decapitations are more morally valid than your decapitations.' Only difference I can see is that they plan to end up with trillions dead, and you do-gooders manage it by accident."