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How can I help player improve in GSF?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
How can I help player improve in GSF?

General_Brass's Avatar


General_Brass
05.26.2014 , 02:24 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Magira View Post
As long as no voic chat is built right into the game AND it is ensured that all use it, it only leads to

- Isolation from most other players
- Own advantage at the cost of game balance

The better way is good and friendly coordination on the chat.
Both are correct and a really problematic situation. The problem is if it isn't pushed on everyone the people you would least want using it will be abusing it.

JeepWithGuy's Avatar


JeepWithGuy
05.26.2014 , 07:16 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Magira View Post
As long as no voic chat is built right into the game AND it is ensured that all use it, it only leads to

- Isolation from most other players
- Own advantage at the cost of game balance

The better way is good and friendly coordination on the chat.
I'm afraid I don't understand either of your points.
  • Voice chat only adds to communication. The chat box doesn't disappear when you're on voice chat. So in voice chat, you are exposed MORE to players.
  • Voice chat does not change game balance. Joining voice chat does not improve the stats on any of my ships, or give my side of any given map any benefits.
Do you advocate terminating voice chat in all games? Why is GSF any different than World of Warcraft? EVE Online?

Typing in chat is extremely risky in GSF, and therefore not ideal. You stop contributing to the game while typing, and make yourself vulnerable. When you finish, then you have to catch back up with your team. Not only have you stopped contributing, but you are behind the tide of battle as well.

All of this assumes players instantly read your chat. What if they are in a turning battle, or avoiding a missile lock? Should they stop and risk death to read your message?

If they don't see your message right away, they don't know if it's even relevant anymore. Is that bomber coming to B still? Did you kill it? Did more bombers come to b? How many teammates responded to B already? How do people know if you still need help at B?

Is timestamp mandatory in your opinion? How else will people know if your message is still current? If timestamp isn't necessary, should all people go ahead and add the current time to their messages? Which timezone will be the standard timezone for use in GSF?

You are assuming everyone plays like you, or should play like you. Voice chat aside, I don't use a keyboard for GSF. So to type a message, i'd have to take my hands completely off my flight controls to type on my keyboard. Does that break game balance since you now have an advantage?

If someone offers to give everyone $100, are you going to insist on curbside delivery to your home? Should they bring it to your door too? Or are you just going to sit at home and insist everyone else stays home as well because you don't want to have to go to the bank to pick up your money?

Forcing people to do things your way because you don't like the other way is not the answer. Voice chat is only an advantage because you refuse to use it.

Final thought: Voice chat is instant communication. If there was a tornado headed for your house, would you want someone to type it in chat? Or tell you in voice chat?

If there are a group of bombers headed for your satellite, you think it's better for someone to type to you? Or tell you voice chat?

Quote: Originally Posted by General_Brass View Post
Both are correct and a really problematic situation. The problem is if it isn't pushed on everyone the people you would least want using it will be abusing it.
I'm also having trouble understanding what you're saying. I'm assuming you mean voice chat is the problem, so:
If voice chat isn't pushed on everyone, the people you would least want using voice chat will be abusing it.

Voice chat isn't pushed on everyone now, so the people on voice chat now are the ones abusing it?
Constant Warfare: MMO helpsite. You just have to ask.
Pylan Traitine

Marstrike's Avatar


Marstrike
05.26.2014 , 07:28 AM | #13
He means by using VOIP in a "rl friends group we just like to play together" (pug squashing premade) he gains an advantage over others, this in turn effects the team balance in the short term (easier wins) and the server GSF balance in the long term (people dont like to be farmed).

Its hard enough with the two starting ships for new players without having to face well organized, fully upgraded, coordinated groups.
Account inactive.

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
05.26.2014 , 07:50 AM | #14
Want him to improve?

Throw him to the wolves.
Crinn

Sanity is for the weak minded.

SammyGStatus's Avatar


SammyGStatus
05.26.2014 , 08:00 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Marstrike View Post
Its hard enough with the two starting ships for new players without having to face well organized, fully upgraded, coordinated groups.
NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

Communication isn't a game aspect - it's a human one. Therefore, the introduction of voice chat doesn't break balance, but provides a serious advantage TO ANYONE THAT ISN'T WILLFULLY IGNORING THE OPTION TO UTILIZE IT!

There's a reason why the best players are in VoIP - during those 1% of times where one premade is going up against another (which is the only time we'll actually be serious in chat), it levels the playing field ONLY IN TERMS OF GIVING YOU MORE PERSPECTIVE OF THE BATTLE FIELD! If a newb doesn't know how to read the map yet because it's their 13th game, then having them in voice chat or not isn't going to mean a bloody thing (especially if it's the 3rd time on a map / gametype). They will still fall regardless of if you tell them who to go for or where to move. These are abilities you learn as you play more - when the right time to switch sats is, when to focus or pull back to a quadrant in TDM, how to play wingman support, etc.

VoIP isn't the problem - it's those that are willing to intentionally handicap themselves and blame everyone else for utilizing what they deem as unworthy. I've met GSs say the same thing about Ion - "I won't use it because it's cheap".... Ya, that's great - I'm going to ion you consistently just for saying that. Gimping yourself doesn't make you more noble, more honorable, or anything of the sort. What you chose to do will put you at a serious disadvantage, but if you're into willfully ignoring an easy option to expedite the learning curve, and then come onto a forum and complain, more power to you. You're wrong, but well within your rights, much as I am in mine to say that I feel you're being ridiculous. You'll never be able to get to the top tier of pilots unless you truly embrace all aspects available. This isn't doping in cycling - this is the QB calling an audible (maybe the star wars space game audience isn't the right demographic for sports metaphors).

If you want to fight against a well organized premade, get well organized yourself. Don't say that those who choose to utilize A TECHNOLOGY AVAILABLE TO ANYONE aren't playing fair, or are taking advantage of newbs. We're not calling targets when it comes to you guys - we're calling targets when there is another group who we see a lot and have an idea how they play.

Ever watch Zoids? The ones with Bit and Liger 0? They had sanctioned battles (like a GSF instance) with multiple players on both teams. In that series, the pilots didn't just assume their teammates knew where to go or who to look out for and when, but they SPOKE!

Use your voice - it's one of the reasons we're the dominant species on the planet, and people claiming premades with VoIPs are wrong is just asinine. If you choose to bring a knife to a gunfight because a gun is less personal, await your letter stating that you won the Darwin award - I'm sure it's on the way.
Renegade-One / Leggogurl / Aimbot / Even'ess / Status

Fractalsponge's Avatar


Fractalsponge
05.26.2014 , 11:22 AM | #16
90% of the time, you don't need VOIP to be effective, or chart topping. I'm not in VOIP the majority of the time I play, and when I am I don't usually even talk, since I have a small apartment and when I play there are usually sleeping children that under no circumstances must be woken . Most times, I don't even play with the game sounds on, and I don't have issues with situational awareness, or doing well in gsf.

What premades really do is they tend to concentrate veteran players. These pilots don't need VOIP to be at the right place at the right time and do well. See turrets going down on a node? Guess where you need to be? If you are really experienced, you can judge when a node is a lost cause, and it's better to go somewhere else. You can figure out where the easy kills are and take them, and who needs to be focused immediately. The vast majority of the time, the veterans will arrive at the same conclusions without prompting. It can make the best teams seem like they're VOIP coordinating even when they aren't. If the best teams WERE coordinating at the maximum level the free VOIP tech allowed them to, you wouldn't get a shot off - why? "Spike target in 3...2...1..."

And yes, if there's a premade that seems unbeatable, find a group yourself. The game is not designed (well not anymore, lol), for one person to go out there and dominate organized opposition. If you don't want to do this, then that's fine - accept that the organized teams will beat you.
http://fractalsponge.net
Xi'ao - The Shadowlands

General_Brass's Avatar


General_Brass
05.26.2014 , 08:40 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by SammyGStatus View Post
NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

Communication isn't a game aspect - it's a human one. Therefore, the introduction of voice chat doesn't break balance, but provides a serious advantage TO ANYONE THAT ISN'T WILLFULLY IGNORING THE OPTION TO UTILIZE IT!

There's a reason why the best players are in VoIP - during those 1% of times where one premade is going up against another (which is the only time we'll actually be serious in chat), it levels the playing field ONLY IN TERMS OF GIVING YOU MORE PERSPECTIVE OF THE BATTLE FIELD! If a newb doesn't know how to read the map yet because it's their 13th game, then having them in voice chat or not isn't going to mean a bloody thing (especially if it's the 3rd time on a map / gametype). They will still fall regardless of if you tell them who to go for or where to move. These are abilities you learn as you play more - when the right time to switch sats is, when to focus or pull back to a quadrant in TDM, how to play wingman support, etc.
.
One you are asking people to give up every other part of this game to play GSF that way. You need a group of people that will only be doing things in game that they can drop at a moments notice to make that work.

Second you are seriously underestimating the value of voip and how it is used. Simply calling focus targets and having support ships call for assistance is enormous. I can't even begin to say how far off you are about when it is being used. Really at least 75% of the time I can see it used, it is being used to make certain a pug has no chance. It really isn't hard to see this either just look on your map for instances when the other team forms on one target or one map coordinate within a second or 2 of each other all breaking off whatever they were doing previously.

SammyGStatus's Avatar


SammyGStatus
05.27.2014 , 12:10 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by General_Brass View Post
One you are asking people to give up every other part of this game to play GSF that way. You need a group of people that will only be doing things in game that they can drop at a moments notice to make that work.

Second you are seriously underestimating the value of voip and how it is used. Simply calling focus targets and having support ships call for assistance is enormous. I can't even begin to say how far off you are about when it is being used. Really at least 75% of the time I can see it used, it is being used to make certain a pug has no chance. It really isn't hard to see this either just look on your map for instances when the other team forms on one target or one map coordinate within a second or 2 of each other all breaking off whatever they were doing previously.
In my experience as someone who groups and is VoIP everyday, I can 100% assure you that we will NEVER call taragets unless it's a flippin bomber ball (Ya you Bastion boys!!!). Other than that, there is absolutely no verbal coordination - only experience flying together. I guess experience is OP too huh?

And I don't believe I asked anyway to sacrifice anything for GSF - I merely recommended utilizing what's already out and available. Good luck getting into a NiM op without VoIP. They won't take you, period, because you will not be able to perform at top levels. If you want to play against top leveled pilots, play like them
Renegade-One / Leggogurl / Aimbot / Even'ess / Status

Kuciwalker's Avatar


Kuciwalker
05.27.2014 , 12:23 PM | #19
VOIP frequently makes me fly worse because I am paying more attention having casual conversations with people in channel than actually flying.

Magira's Avatar


Magira
05.27.2014 , 12:58 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by SammyGStatus View Post
Good luck getting into a NiM op without VoIP.
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