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GSF - a massive minigame that is harsh on newbies

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
GSF - a massive minigame that is harsh on newbies

sporkan's Avatar


sporkan
05.21.2014 , 11:32 AM | #1
I've played some of the recent "MMO" simulator games, and GSF seems to have done the Prequel Trilogy version of those games: it's nice and shiny, but it's a terrible experience for a newer player. I played through the tutorial, and it was not sufficient to get me up to speed on the controls and systems of GSF. (It is less user friendly than the space missions, which at least give you tooltips for the action bar).

I think the idea of GSF has a lot of potential, but the way it's implemented I don't even want to bother with it. Not only is it going to take extra work for me just to figure out what to do (beyond what's in the tutorial), but I am being thrust into the mix in a starter ship against people in high ranking ships. Compare to MMORPGs that usually either have level brackets or catch-up mechanics for PvP, or games like the World of ______ series which have you closely arranged based on tier.

To me, the things that would make GSF better are...
1) Better tutorials and/or tooltips for newbie-friendliness
2) Place people into battles based on their craft's level/quality instead of all in one
3) Make our ships seem more substantial. Give us a hangar we can explore our ships in like for our personal starship. Make our hangar more like one out of a simulator game. Make us feel like our character is connected to GSF instead of it feeling like TOR is the interactive loading screen for the game.
4) This is a big one, but IMO SWTOR has the opportunity to take GSF and make it into much more than just a new mode of PvP. Star Trek Online did a lot with their space battles, including PvE and PvP. It would be interesting if you had a Pilot level and a Character level that were independent of each other, where GSF functions as a second game and a second type of progression you can do, full with PvE solo battles, group missions, and PvP. It can be expanded on to include capital ships, encouraging players to work together in guilds to construct custom capital ships they can bring that are more powerful than the base ships that would be in the mission or battle. There are a lot of games in the past, like the X-Wing or Battlefront games, or even other franchises like EVE/STO or World of Warplanes, where the game design could draw from to make an epic space leveling adventure instead of a non-newbie-friendly-cluster-frankfurter of what my experience with GSF has been.

Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
05.21.2014 , 12:05 PM | #2
Well, barring unforeseen obstacles Star Citizens dogfighting module is scheduled to go live on May 29.

It'll be an early beta, and probably buggy, but it's more or less what you're looking for in GSF. It's biggest likely problem is likely to be lack of server capacity for the giant mobs swarming to try it out. There's a possibility of a waiting list even if you're already a backer. Might be a couple of months be for the major bug squashing has been done and there's enough server capacity for new customers to log into multiplayer as soon as they've finished the download.

Thing is, that's a space sim game designed to be THE killer app when it comes to space sim games. If they get it right it's going to be like Tetris, Pac-Man, Mario Bros, and other giant classics of video game genres.

GSF is a minigame. It's got a heap of flaws for a perfect space sim, but that's not what it's meant to be. It is growing bit by bit, and it's an awful lot better than the PvE space missions. Enjoy it for what it is.

I'll be spending some time in June shooting down Vanduul Sycthes, but I'll probably still be popping in to visit Kuat, Lost Shipyards, and Denon.

I support GSF improvements, but from what I've seen the limits are on the resources that the developers have available, not so much on what they might like to do in a perfect world. They're doing the best they can I think, and will continue to do so. If SWTOR stays healthy for long enough GSF might have time to evolve into a pretty impressive space combat game even when comparing to giants in the genre.
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SammyGStatus's Avatar


SammyGStatus
05.21.2014 , 12:34 PM | #3
Saw Ram post about SC - stopped reading

If SWTOR doesn't do something to adjust matchmaking quickly, they're going to lose a decent amount of players. I'm basing this assumption off of all the people who I talk to who say that once the DFM goes live, GSF will take a back seat. Granted, we'll still be playing GSF but I sincerely doubt that once we have all of our ships in the DFM we'll be playing GSF much (again assuming that all goes well).

Newbies getting into matches vs 2 premades isn't good mechanics for either the new players, or the veterans who're paired with them. Scrab and I went against a double premade with 5 2 shippers and 1 5 ship (besides us). 3 of these folks had under 10% accuracy (someone took 329 shots and had a 1%). For this reason alone, I'm kinda off put by queuing.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE intense competition, but in order for 2 players to go against 8 people who play together (in groups of 4), we can't be paired with 2 shippers.

I doubt this will happen unfortunately - I have minimal faith in BW at this point. The game is great, as are the mechanics, but matchmaking needs to be adjusted. I like the two groups idea (ranked vs regular) but we need cross queues for ranked. If Star Citizen performs, my guild will be leaving, and that sucks... Especially after seeing some more Jung'Ma folks on TEH
Renegade-One / Leggogurl / Aimbot / Even'ess / Status

Sidenti's Avatar


Sidenti
05.21.2014 , 12:54 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Ramalina View Post
Well, barring unforeseen obstacles Star Citizens dogfighting module is scheduled to go live on May 29.

It'll be an early beta, and probably buggy, but it's more or less what you're looking for in GSF. It's biggest likely problem is likely to be lack of server capacity for the giant mobs swarming to try it out. There's a possibility of a waiting list even if you're already a backer. Might be a couple of months be for the major bug squashing has been done and there's enough server capacity for new customers to log into multiplayer as soon as they've finished the download.

Thing is, that's a space sim game designed to be THE killer app when it comes to space sim games. If they get it right it's going to be like Tetris, Pac-Man, Mario Bros, and other giant classics of video game genres.

GSF is a minigame. It's got a heap of flaws for a perfect space sim, but that's not what it's meant to be. It is growing bit by bit, and it's an awful lot better than the PvE space missions. Enjoy it for what it is.

I'll be spending some time in June shooting down Vanduul Sycthes, but I'll probably still be popping in to visit Kuat, Lost Shipyards, and Denon.

I support GSF improvements, but from what I've seen the limits are on the resources that the developers have available, not so much on what they might like to do in a perfect world. They're doing the best they can I think, and will continue to do so. If SWTOR stays healthy for long enough GSF might have time to evolve into a pretty impressive space combat game even when comparing to giants in the genre.
I hope it's better than what they showed in April. I mean, sure, it's pretty, but slow as HELL. -bp

SammyGStatus's Avatar


SammyGStatus
05.21.2014 , 01:17 PM | #5
I actually read something about that - I'll see if I can pull the quote, but that was intentional.
Renegade-One / Leggogurl / Aimbot / Even'ess / Status

Sidenti's Avatar


Sidenti
05.21.2014 , 01:19 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by SammyGStatus View Post
I actually read something about that - I'll see if I can pull the quote, but that was intentional.
I believe you. Your word carries quite a bit of weight with me in this regard. (Don't abuse that.) -bp

Kalphitis's Avatar


Kalphitis
05.21.2014 , 01:25 PM | #7
It's official, people are comparing swtor to star trek online. I suppose we all knew this day would come...swtor is now completely dead.

Less than two weeks until Wildstar, just hang in there folks, hang in there...

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
05.21.2014 , 01:50 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by sporkan View Post
I
1) Better tutorials and/or tooltips for newbie-friendliness
2) Place people into battles based on their craft's level/quality instead of all in one
3) Make our ships seem more substantial. Give us a hangar we can explore our ships in like for our personal starship. Make our hangar more like one out of a simulator game. Make us feel like our character is connected to GSF instead of it feeling like TOR is the interactive loading screen for the game.
4) This is a big one, but IMO SWTOR has the opportunity to take GSF and make it into much more than just a new mode of PvP. Star Trek Online did a lot with their space battles, including PvE and PvP. It would be interesting if you had a Pilot level and a Character level that were independent of each other, where GSF functions as a second game and a second type of progression you can do, full with PvE solo battles, group missions, and PvP. It can be expanded on to include capital ships, encouraging players to work together in guilds to construct custom capital ships they can bring that are more powerful than the base ships that would be in the mission or battle. There are a lot of games in the past, like the X-Wing or Battlefront games, or even other franchises like EVE/STO or World of Warplanes, where the game design could draw from to make an epic space leveling adventure instead of a non-newbie-friendly-cluster-frankfurter of what my experience with GSF has been.
I agree with this in principle, but I would add they should shrink the reticule, add joystick support and on foot combat ala BF2 using simple mesh models to represent players. I have suggested this in the past, and this is what they should have done in the first place.

I also suggested a 40 percent top tier nerf across the board, reducing the nerf as you drop in tier to reduce the arc and give new players a fighting chance. Victories should be based on skill, not gear IMO.

Pilgrim_Grey's Avatar


Pilgrim_Grey
05.21.2014 , 03:54 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Kalphitis View Post
It's official, people are comparing swtor to star trek online. I suppose we all knew this day would come...swtor is now completely dead.

Less than two weeks until Wildstar, just hang in there folks, hang in there...
Star Trek Online has been known for its fun space combat since it started. That's pretty much the main thing it did right from the start, even if it needed tweaking. Even if it wasn't your cup of tea, I've read and heard plenty of comments and articles complimenting its space combat. Completely different space combat from GSF, sure, but it's still seen as fun.

And as for Wildstar... it'll join the ranks of every other MMO out there that people try to talk about like it's going to be the best ever. And NCSoft has their mitts on it, so I'm not touching it... otherwise, I might give it a go.

As for the OP, I think matchmaking is the biggest thing they could do at the moment. I'd love to see a true segregation based on global req earned, or something similar (not unlike the separation of lowbie ground PVP from the 55s). Newbies need a place to get their skills and get some better gear. I'm sick of my alts having huge gear gaps. I was in a match the other day where the other team had swarms of bombers (and the whole team had five ships unlocked), but my alt was just too new to GSF to have much to fight them with--just the tier 1 Strike and Scout and Gunship, and the Gunship wasn't even close to the aoe Ion to help with the 10-20 mines, drones, etc. floating around wherever the bombers went.

Would have been hard pressed even if I had better tools, but it was frustrating trying to fight that. Skill is the main determiner in GSF, but gear does help. A segregation would help let lowbies get into the game more.
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sporkan's Avatar


sporkan
05.21.2014 , 03:56 PM | #10
Quote:
It's official, people are comparing swtor to star trek online. I suppose we all knew this day would come...swtor is now completely dead.
IMO it was dead the moment it went Free to Play, itís just a dead man walking now. Unfortunately, no other MMO is any fun, so Iím here. My comparison to STO is because Star Wars has the lore and it has precedent with previous games to go both into space combat and foot soldier/jedi combat. STO did the same. Not too many other MMOs could pull off doing 2 systems with their lore, and Iím not even convinced SWTOR has.

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Quote:
I agree with this in principle, but I would add they should shrink the reticule, add joystick support and on foot combat ala BF2 using simple mesh models to represent players. I have suggested this in the past, and this is what they should have done in the first place.

I also suggested a 40 percent top tier nerf across the board, reducing the nerf as you drop in tier to reduce the arc and give new players a fighting chance. Victories should be based on skill, not gear IMO.
Well, for the most part these arenít mutually exclusive with my suggestions. Basically, they need to 1) balance it, 2) make it newbie-friendly (i.e. tutorials and tooltips) and then 3) expand on it to make it progression-based like an MMORPG instead of just an arcadey mess.

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I understand GSF is a mini-game, but it could be so much more. I took one look at Wildstar and said ďnextĒ. Star citizen looks interesting on paper, but I doubt Iíll even pick it up.