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T2 Scout Offensive Abilities Roundtable

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
T2 Scout Offensive Abilities Roundtable

Slivovidze's Avatar


Slivovidze
05.21.2014 , 02:53 PM | #11
<pessimism>
Do you realize that while you craft perfect solutions for stuff, devs will either do nothing (because GSF is in healthy state and they are happy with it), or they will come and make some total DERP.
</pessimism>

I don't really have anything to say to the topic... I am just getting fed up with these things being able to kill me in a blink if I am not fast enough no matter what I fly, and escaping them is a real pain. I will gladly take loss against great pilots in their Rycers, Quells and Blackbolts, but there are always several Stings with these huge cannons chalking one kill after another.

However, redesigning components probably wouldn't be the best way to deal with stuff. Nerfing BLC's would also harm gunships--- wait, that's actually good, too. But they would cry a lot.
But nerfing TT would hurt T1 scouts, which, IMO, require much more skill to utilize their burst.
Nerfing Blaster Overcharge would barely solve the problem, since from my experience, most of them use TT anyways.
Nerfing their DF would also harm other class pilots who have lost their dignity. (I think gunships and T1 scouts can equip that thing)

What could help in my opinion, are tweaks of T2 scout itself.
- Remove BLC's from that ship. They would still be different from other ships. More armed than T1 scout, faster than fighters.
- Make boosting more expensive for them, or reduce their speed or maneuvering slightly. So it is possible to escape or outmaneuver them, which would increase skill requirement for landing these insane bursts, adding the neccessity of element of surprise.
- Or even reclassify them as fighters, and replace the free scout spot with T1 or T3 fighter. Being fighters would give them these mobility debuffs while actually justifying their damage output. T1 fighter doesn't have any defensive minor components and with even more reduced toughness and increased mobility I think they would fit the scout role well. T3 fighter on the other hand has scout signature minor, sensors, and isn't a beacon of offense, which fits for a scout. Would be kinda tanky for a scout though.

<pessimism>
Not like they are gonna do anything good. This will be a thread #84354 about the hot topic that heated the community, but let the devs perfectly cool.
</pessimism>

DamascusAdontise's Avatar


DamascusAdontise
05.21.2014 , 03:06 PM | #12
unfortunately I agree, and while I spent my time this morning posting and theory crafting look where it got me. My son and wife get home from school and work respectively in 10 minutes and all I accomplished was to kill my game time for the day. .I need to re-evaluate this whole forums thing, I can spend a lot of time here spraying ideas on the wall the no one cares about or agrees with. Time I learned my lesson I think =/ *logs into game for what little time he can get now*

what a waste of time it is (90% of the time, im proud of the new player stuff but otherwise meh)
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Pilgrim_Grey's Avatar


Pilgrim_Grey
05.21.2014 , 08:44 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by DamascusAdontise View Post
unfortunately I agree, and while I spent my time this morning posting and theory crafting look where it got me. My son and wife get home from school and work respectively in 10 minutes and all I accomplished was to kill my game time for the day. .I need to re-evaluate this whole forums thing, I can spend a lot of time here spraying ideas on the wall the no one cares about or agrees with. Time I learned my lesson I think =/ *logs into game for what little time he can get now*

what a waste of time it is (90% of the time, im proud of the new player stuff but otherwise meh)
I appreciate you doing it. There's always debate on the forums, and if you like discussing, that's part of the fun. It's good to have thoughtful posters, so keep it up.

Personally, I think reducing the crit chance and crit damage on these would be the way to go. All the related weapons have their own crit boosts, so these offensive powers exacerbate that issue. If you reduced those (or took some out, even), they'd still be quite nice to use and then the devs wouldn't have to worry about how they stack with separate weapon components.
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Sidenti's Avatar


Sidenti
05.21.2014 , 08:46 PM | #14
After having flown a Flashfire and a Sting, I can comfortably say that the BLC really is a bit overpowered.

I think if damage were taken down by 20% it'd be all right though. It's really only that overpowered up close anyway. -bp

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
05.21.2014 , 09:45 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Sidenti View Post
After having flown a Flashfire and a Sting, I can comfortably say that the BLC really is a bit overpowered.

I think if damage were taken down by 20% it'd be all right though. It's really only that overpowered up close anyway. -bp
at -20% it would only be superior to anything at <500m, beyond that and it would be inferior to everything, and <500m is not even remotely practical for the majority of situations.
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Gavin_Kelvar's Avatar


Gavin_Kelvar
05.21.2014 , 11:03 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
But it also makes sense for a weapon which have more concentrated and powerful shots to be able to deal with heavy armors and/or to partly bypass shields... Which BLC is.
While in theory that's good I think in practice it's bad. In 2.5 battlescouts were able to use BLC to shred turrets just as efficiently or more efficiently than a striker which led to the assertion by some scout pilots that taking on armored targets was the scouts, not strikers job. I think bombers are the only reason battlescouts still don't outclass strikers in the armored attack role.

Mainly I think the problem with BLCs having armor penetration is that it gives them utility to attack armored targets without making them sacrifice any dogfighting utility. In essence giving multirole versatility to a craft that's supposed to be a specialist not multirole platform. Losing the armor penetration would force a scout to choose between being dominant as a dogfighter with BLC/clusters or having some armor busting capabilities with rocket pods at the cost of not being as good a dogfighter. It wouldn't eliminate their ability to be good at other jobs but it would eliminate their ability to have a offensive combo that makes them the best at the job of interceptor without coming at the cost of significantly inferior capability against armored targets.

I think Kuci is right in that the problem with battlescouts is that they aren't weak enough at the other jobs.
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Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
05.22.2014 , 03:13 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Gavin_Kelvar View Post
While in theory that's good I think in practice it's bad. In 2.5 battlescouts were able to use BLC to shred turrets just as efficiently or more efficiently than a striker which led to the assertion by some scout pilots that taking on armored targets was the scouts, not strikers job. I think bombers are the only reason battlescouts still don't outclass strikers in the armored attack role.

Mainly I think the problem with BLCs having armor penetration is that it gives them utility to attack armored targets without making them sacrifice any dogfighting utility. In essence giving multirole versatility to a craft that's supposed to be a specialist not multirole platform. Losing the armor penetration would force a scout to choose between being dominant as a dogfighter with BLC/clusters or having some armor busting capabilities with rocket pods at the cost of not being as good a dogfighter. It wouldn't eliminate their ability to be good at other jobs but it would eliminate their ability to have a offensive combo that makes them the best at the job of interceptor without coming at the cost of significantly inferior capability against armored targets.

I think Kuci is right in that the problem with battlescouts is that they aren't weak enough at the other jobs.
I think that following this path is going astray with the initial objective.
Removing the ability to deal with turrets is one thing... But isn't the main reason of this discussion the fact it obliterates with much more ease than every other cannons about every ships, which mainly have little to no armor ?
Removing amror pen doesn't solve anything when the victims have almost inexistant armor. That's why it is unimportant and misleading.

In addition I'd really like that much for BLC to be balanced for what it is : a weapon. As such, it can potentially be installed on every ship category. At the moment it's not, but maybe one day we'll see a strike with them for example. So if we try to balance it with scouts in mind, the risk is that the weapon may be useless on every actual and future non Scout ship that have access to them.

I find it dommageable trying to balance it according to a particular ship.

Side Note : I also think that turrets suffer from design issues that they need to be changed... I am even tempted to think we shouldn't have them anymore.

Sidenti's Avatar


Sidenti
05.22.2014 , 05:37 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
at -20% it would only be superior to anything at <500m, beyond that and it would be inferior to everything, and <500m is not even remotely practical for the majority of situations.
I thought you flew one of these things!

First: According to Dulfy, those things hit for around 933 or so at 500m. Combine that with Blaster Overcharge and maxed-out plasma rocket pods, and it's absolutely no surprise cattlescout pilots like Scrab get the kills they do. (Piloting skill does help, but I can tell you from personal experience that it's not strictly necessary to have.)

Second: The BLC is clearly meant to fill a combat shotgun role. If you want effectiveness at range with a firearm, selecting a shotgun is probably not going to get you there as fast as a rifle would. So, the BLC really isn't supposed to be that effective at range.

Third: Fighting at within 1000m is kinda the cattlescout's bread and butter. I don't know how you fly yours, but without exception, every competent cattlescout pilot on the Ebon Hawk is a close-range blast-and-bolt fighter.

Finally, the BLC is ALREADY inferior to all of its competing loadout options beyond 500m (and STILL inferior to LLC within 500m). So there won't be any change. The situation you describe is already reality.

From what I can see, it's either nerf BLC's damage or take away Blaster Overcharge, which makes an already-overpowered situation lethal in short order. I don't think BO is working as intended, because it seems to also have a boosting effect to SECONDARY weapons like cluster missiles.

But I could see just reducing BLC's damage by 10% if its ridiculous 115% aim at close range were looked at. I mean, I get what they're thinking ("it must be accurate at close range because shotgun!"), but anyone who's ever trained with a combat shotgun will tell you lethality at close range comes from having A) heavy shot and B) aiming squarely at center mass. Even being a little off to the side can mean the difference between wounded attacker and corpse.

So, there's the supporting evidence. -bp

Karlbadmanners's Avatar


Karlbadmanners
05.22.2014 , 06:21 AM | #19
I think a good step would be to remember T2 scouts are paper thin, and that when pilots around it's target are paying attention they are neutralized rather quickly almost always.

Magira's Avatar


Magira
05.22.2014 , 06:55 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Sidenti View Post
Combine that with Blaster Overcharge and maxed-out plasma rocket pods, and it's absolutely no surprise cattlescout pilots like Scrab get the kills they do.
Scrab fly with Quads and increased Range Pods.
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