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"The Farce is strong with this one" (Ion Missile)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
"The Farce is strong with this one" (Ion Missile)

Nemarus's Avatar


Nemarus
05.19.2014 , 10:57 AM | #1
First: the primary reason I'm making this post is to make the pun in the title. How did we go so long not realizing "Farce" is one letter different than "Force"? Each reply to this thread must contain a Force/Farce pun or it will be considered invalid.

Second: Ion Missile. Is there a more worthless component in the game? Once rendered absolutely unusable by its medium lock-on time combined with short range, it was at least given a medium range at some point. But it's still just ... useless.

The biggest (but not only) reason why it's useless? Its overly long cooldown. Compared to its "sibling" Concussion Missile, whose cooldown is a modest 5.5 seconds, Ion Missile has a 11 second cooldown! The same as a Proton Torpedo. You'd think that would mean the Ion Missile must be pretty awesome to hit with, if we can only fire it every 13.6 seconds.

But then you look at its damage: 1580 to shields or 197 to hull. And a whole 20 energy drain to weapons and engine. Wow! 20! The same amount as you lose when firing Light Laser Cannons for one second.

Dare we even compare this to an Ion Railgun? Some have said, "No you can't compare railguns and missiles, because unlike a railgun, you can lock on with missiles while also shooting your primary lasers."

That is a valid argument ... for every missile except Ion Missile. Why? Because if you are in range to shoot your target with primary lasers while locking on with your Ion Missile, then by the time the Ion Missile hits the target's shields will likely be gone already. Which means that all the Ion Missile does is 197 hull damage and a pitiful energy drain, less damage than a single hit of your lasers will do.

Now sure, if you've spent 35500 requisition on your Ion Missile, you also get a 40% slow for 12 seconds. Of course, a Concussion Missile upgraded to tier 5 gives you a 30% slow for 15 seconds and an extra 25 engine energy drain ... in addition to the massive damage Concussion Missile does ... huh. Why do Concussion Missiles have an Ion effect on them? BECAUSE REASONS.

And coming in 2.8, we get the Interdiction Missile, which gives (without any upgrades at all) a 50% slow for 8 seconds. Upgraded, the slow lasts for 10 seconds, and you get a 20 point energy drain. Oh and don't forget the Interdiction Missile locks on a full second faster and has a cooldown of only 8.3 seconds. Sure it's a bit shorter range, but it also deals 690 damage to hull or shields.

Why is it that two missiles that are not Ion Missile seems to be better at disabling/crippling foes than Ion Missile?

Obviously Ion Missile is broken. So how do we fix it?

Well, one option would be to just remove it from the game and replace it with Interdiction Missile. I'd welcome Interdiction Missile as an option on my Bloodmark, Imperium or Quell, and I think most others would too.

The other option is to actually make Ion Missile usable and desirable in some situations. Here are some possible ways to do that:

1) REDUCE THE COOLDOWN to 5.5 seconds. There's no reason Ion Missile shouldn't be identical to Concussion Missile in terms of firing arc, lock on time, range and cooldown--not unless it gets significantly buffed to have very powerful and unique capabilities.

2) Make its energy drain far more significant--on the order of 50 or so.

3) Give it an AOE arc (like Ion Railgun) that does half damage to nearby targets. This would mean that even if your primary target's shields shields are already down, you may get some Ion-utility by dropping the shields of other enemy ships. It'd also turn Ion Missile into another mine-clearing option.

4) Increase the hull damage to ~700. If I spend 2.7 seconds locking with a missile, and I won't be able to fire it again for 11 (or even 5.5) seconds, then at least make it do the damage of a Cluster Missile if the target's shields are already down.

Not saying all of these should be done--but any combination of them would help.

"May the Farce be with you"
Shayd / Callem / RK-4X / "Trynt" - Leader of <Eclipse Squadron>, The Ebon Hawk
http://EclipseSquadron.enjin.com Imperial GSF-focused guild

"Serve the Emperor above all others."

Sidenti's Avatar


Sidenti
05.19.2014 , 11:03 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
First: the primary reason I'm making this post is to make the pun in the title. How did we go so long not realizing "Farce" is one letter different than "Force"? Each reply to this thread must contain a Force/Farce pun or it will be considered invalid.

Second: Ion Missile. Is there a more worthless component in the game? Once rendered absolutely unusable by its medium lock-on time combined with short range, it was at least given a medium range at some point. But it's still just ... useless.

The biggest (but not only) reason why it's useless? Its overly long cooldown. Compared to its "sibling" Concussion Missile, whose cooldown is a modest 5.5 seconds, Ion Missile has a 11 second cooldown! The same as a Proton Torpedo. You'd think that would mean the Ion Missile must be pretty awesome to hit with, if we can only fire it every 13.6 seconds.

But then you look at its damage: 1580 to shields or 197 to hull. And a whole 20 energy drain to weapons and engine. Wow! 20! The same amount as you lose when firing Light Laser Cannons for one second.

Dare we even compare this to an Ion Railgun? Some have said, "No you can't compare railguns and missiles, because unlike a railgun, you can lock on with missiles while also shooting your primary lasers."

That is a valid argument ... for every missile except Ion Missile. Why? Because if you are in range to shoot your target with primary lasers while locking on with your Ion Missile, then by the time the Ion Missile hits the target's shields will likely be gone already. Which means that all the Ion Missile does is 197 hull damage and a pitiful energy drain, less damage than a single hit of your lasers will do.

Now sure, if you've spent 35500 requisition on your Ion Missile, you also get a 40% slow for 12 seconds. Of course, a Concussion Missile upgraded to tier 5 gives you a 30% slow for 15 seconds and an extra 25 engine energy drain ... in addition to the massive damage Concussion Missile does ... huh. Why do Concussion Missiles have an Ion effect on them? BECAUSE REASONS.

And coming in 2.8, we get the Interdiction Missile, which gives (without any upgrades at all) a 50% slow for 8 seconds. Upgraded, the slow lasts for 10 seconds, and you get a 20 point energy drain. Oh and don't forget the Interdiction Missile locks on a full second faster and has a cooldown of only 8.3 seconds. Sure it's a bit shorter range, but it also deals 690 damage to hull or shields.

Why is it that two missiles that are not Ion Missile seems to be better at disabling/crippling foes than Ion Missile?

Obviously Ion Missile is broken. So how do we fix it?

Well, one option would be to just remove it from the game and replace it with Interdiction Missile. I'd welcome Interdiction Missile as an option on my Bloodmark, Imperium or Quell, and I think most others would too.

The other option is to actually make Ion Missile usable and desirable in some situations. Here are some possible ways to do that:

1) REDUCE THE COOLDOWN to 5.5 seconds. There's no reason Ion Missile shouldn't be identical to Concussion Missile in terms of firing arc, lock on time, range and cooldown--not unless it gets significantly buffed to have very powerful and unique capabilities.

2) Make its energy drain far more significant--on the order of 50 or so.

3) Give it an AOE arc (like Ion Railgun) that does half damage to nearby targets. This would mean that even if your primary target's shields shields are already down, you may get some Ion-utility by dropping the shields of other enemy ships. It'd also turn Ion Mine into another mine-clearing option.

4) Increase the hull damage to ~700. If I spend 2.7 seconds locking with a missile, and I won't be able to fire it again for 11 (or even 5.5) seconds, then at least make it do the damage of a Cluster Missile if the target's shields are already down.

Not saying all of these should be done--but any combination of them would help.

"May the Farce be with you"
How dare you farce me into speaking a certain way! RABBLE!

Rabblerabblerabblerabblerabble!

Ryuku-sama's Avatar


Ryuku-sama
05.19.2014 , 11:11 AM | #3
May the Farce allow BW to understand your request
"If it wasn't broken, we shall break it. If it is balanced, we shall beat it until slow and painful death follows. If it is overpowered, it is working as intended." - Bioware 2015

Kalphitis's Avatar


Kalphitis
05.19.2014 , 12:06 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
Why do Concussion Missiles have an Ion effect on them? BECAUSE REASONS.
Good, Nemarus, Good. Let the Farce flow through you ...

MaximilianPower's Avatar


MaximilianPower
05.19.2014 , 12:59 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
First: the primary reason I'm making this post is to make the pun in the title. How did we go so long not realizing "Farce" is one letter different than "Force"? [COLOR="Yellow"]
Some of us have, in fact, already noted this. Your thread has thus been rendered farcical. Which, of course, is entirely appropriate.
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DamascusAdontise's Avatar


DamascusAdontise
05.19.2014 , 01:41 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemarus View Post
1) REDUCE THE COOLDOWN to 5.5 seconds. There's no reason Ion Missile shouldn't be identical to Concussion Missile in terms of firing arc, lock on time, range and cooldown--not unless it gets significantly buffed to have very powerful and unique capabilities.

2) Make its energy drain far more significant--on the order of 50 or so.

3) Give it an AOE arc (like Ion Railgun) that does half damage to nearby targets. This would mean that even if your primary target's shields shields are already down, you may get some Ion-utility by dropping the shields of other enemy ships. It'd also turn Ion Missile into another mine-clearing option.

4) Increase the hull damage to ~700. If I spend 2.7 seconds locking with a missile, and I won't be able to fire it again for 11 (or even 5.5) seconds, then at least make it do the damage of a Cluster Missile if the target's shields are already down.

Not saying all of these should be done--but any combination of them would help.

"May the Farce be with you"
This Farce thing has got to go (pretty soon a farce of farce thread is going to cause a blackhole to emerge devouring the entire GSF community!) lets avoid the disaster and let the meme die with dignity....

That being said I agree entirely about Ion Missile being "out of tune" with the rest of the missile options in the game. I can also see the trepidation of the Dev's to carefully balance the energy drain (a lcokable ion rail is not something we need)

As it stands its not a competitive option at all, I disagree a bit on how to fix it:

IMO the biggest glaring issue is range, for it to be effective at dropping shields BEFORE you engage the target with lasers then it has to be proton range (10k). This would go a long way to fixing it but I also suggest reducing the reload time (perhaps to that of concussion missile)

If they want to keep the long reload then they need to consider the magnitude of the energy drain, if it is going to be 11 seconds then it will need to mostly disable any shield on which it lands (single fire for effect, not multiple)

Additionally I would consider bumping up the missile travel speed, to further guarantee that it hits before you are in laser range. For simple reading I will break it down below:

Ion Option 1) Increase range to 10k + reduce reload time (to that of concussion) + Increase missile travel speed

Ion Option 2) Increase range to 10k + increase energy drain / shield damage (tuned to drop most shields in a single hit) + Increase missile speed

If Ion functioned as either of these I think it could be a great utility missile for getting shields down and hampering systems.

*Edit* As far as the mobility effect is concerned, it doesn't seem to go with the Ion concept. Seems to me like this is a throwback from a time when there were few snares in the game. While this is nice it certainly isn't a main effect of the missile, this is fine as is or they could remove the token effect and buff something else. Either would be okay in my book*
Ahazi Server Refugee (Beta - Shutdown) RIP TIE & Twin Ion
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tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
05.19.2014 , 03:50 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by DamascusAdontise View Post
This Farce thing has got to go (pretty soon a farce of farce thread is going to cause a blackhole to emerge devouring the entire GSF community!) lets avoid the disaster and let the meme die with dignity....

That being said I agree entirely about Ion Missile being "out of tune" with the rest of the missile options in the game. I can also see the trepidation of the Dev's to carefully balance the energy drain (a lcokable ion rail is not something we need)

As it stands its not a competitive option at all, I disagree a bit on how to fix it:

IMO the biggest glaring issue is range, for it to be effective at dropping shields BEFORE you engage the target with lasers then it has to be proton range (10k). This would go a long way to fixing it but I also suggest reducing the reload time (perhaps to that of concussion missile)

If they want to keep the long reload then they need to consider the magnitude of the energy drain, if it is going to be 11 seconds then it will need to mostly disable any shield on which it lands (single fire for effect, not multiple)

Additionally I would consider bumping up the missile travel speed, to further guarantee that it hits before you are in laser range. For simple reading I will break it down below:

Ion Option 1) Increase range to 10k + reduce reload time (to that of concussion) + Increase missile travel speed

Ion Option 2) Increase range to 10k + increase energy drain / shield damage (tuned to drop most shields in a single hit) + Increase missile speed

If Ion functioned as either of these I think it could be a great utility missile for getting shields down and hampering systems.

*Edit* As far as the mobility effect is concerned, it doesn't seem to go with the Ion concept. Seems to me like this is a throwback from a time when there were few snares in the game. While this is nice it certainly isn't a main effect of the missile, this is fine as is or they could remove the token effect and buff something else. Either would be okay in my book*
Why are people afraid of missiles any way? When was the last time you got hit with a missile other then Clusters in your Scout or your GS. Give that man a cookie for hitting you he earned it.

In other words why shouldnt an ion missile be crippling its not like they are hard to avoid, much easier then any Rail gun.

DamascusAdontise's Avatar


DamascusAdontise
05.19.2014 , 04:13 PM | #8
Don't get me wrong, I believe Ion Missile should be powerful. IMO not as grand a scale as a full charge Ion (but granted thats my opinion)

This missile should be feared, and it should be a premier support /cc weapon. Sadly it is not, I am in favor of doing anything to this missile (even if they decided to make it lockable ion rail) leaving it as is pretty much gimps any class that has access to it (as some other possibly viable choice is missing)

Anyways, you know me I am not a "grand sweeping changes" guy. Upping the range is a must IMO but not the end of its needs, that just helps it to be used as intended. It should do what it says: "Drops shields" and it should do this really well (or what the **** is the point eh)
Ahazi Server Refugee (Beta - Shutdown) RIP TIE & Twin Ion
[Circle of Emnity] - Pincer - Ocula Pilot - The Bastion
New to GSF? Look Here!. // And Here!

Nemarus's Avatar


Nemarus
05.19.2014 , 04:30 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
Why are people afraid of missiles any way? When was the last time you got hit with a missile other then Clusters in your Scout or your GS. Give that man a cookie for hitting you he earned it.

In other words why shouldnt an ion missile be crippling its not like they are hard to avoid, much easier then any Rail gun.
Agreed on wondering why anyone fears giving missiles too much power. Those with lock-on over 2.5 seconds require an incredible amount of work (and network luck) to lock on with. And in most cases you can't be firing your lasers at the same time because of range or tracking penalty. And once you do lock on and fire, there's a very good chance the missile will still be evaded via engine or DF.

Though I must admit I've been having fun running a Dustmaker without a railgun and instead using both torpedoes. I'm pretty much always sitting out from 10k out, locking on with one torpedo or the other (doesn't matter which). If I fire and someone engine-breaks, I'll immediately switch to the other torpedo and lock on with it. Any ship without Distortion Field is guaranteed to get hit with one torpedo or the other, which is satisfying.

Of course, if I had just been using a slug railgun, I'd have killed the target five times over in the same amount of time. :P But my Dustmaker is for goofy fun, not being optimal.

I do think that an Ion Torpedo would instantly and automatically make more sense than an Ion Missile. But in order to be worth using instead of Proton or Thermite (which both have pronounced "DOOM" effects if they connect), it would need to be quite crippling. And because torpedoes definitely cannot be locked on while also shooting lasers, the Ion Torpedo would need to be balanced against the Ion Railgun apples to apples (or at least closer to it).
Shayd / Callem / RK-4X / "Trynt" - Leader of <Eclipse Squadron>, The Ebon Hawk
http://EclipseSquadron.enjin.com Imperial GSF-focused guild

"Serve the Emperor above all others."

TrinityLyre's Avatar


TrinityLyre
05.19.2014 , 04:48 PM | #10
Add all four of your suggestions and it might make the ships that are forced to use Ion Missile worthwhile in competitive matches. Ion Missile is a farce, I find nothing to complain about in this thread and thus must (regretfully) agree with all points and suggestions. This missile needs improvement (as does EMP). However, I think it might be better if Ion Missile and Ion Torpedo were separated. Have one distinctly more powerful with a longer lock-on (torpedo) and one that is weak but spammable (cluster missile-y). It could, if balanced properly, make for more interesting loadouts.

I do have one other suggestion of my own:

Redesign and rename Ion Missile into Farcical Torpedo. 6 second lock-on, instantly travels to the target on launch. Upon hitting the target, Farcical Torpedo explodes into confetti and removes the enemy player from the match, preventing them from moving in the game world for 30 seconds while launching fireworks into the air. Talent upgrades could include 10km+ AoE, shorter lock-on, increased firing arc (180 degrees should be sufficient).
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