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No attachment rule


Petvin's Avatar


Petvin
05.08.2014 , 03:16 PM | #1
In game it's clear that relationships are forbidden in the Jedi Order

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lien-Tsai_Qel-Droma

This woman is a Jedi master and mother both, and lived 350-400 years before the game

So when and why did attachments and such become forbidden?
No god ever gave any man anything, nor ever answered any prayer at any time - nor ever will. Madalyn Murray O'Hair

The Cosmos is all that is or was or ever will be. Carl Sagan

sell-dog's Avatar


sell-dog
05.08.2014 , 03:39 PM | #2
Nomi Sunrider is a better example. She was untrained, married to an active Jedi, had a child with him, and then began her training after his murder. There are a couple more examples of Jedi relationships during the Great Sith War.

As in the Revan novel it's made clear that his marriage is looked down upon by the Order. Then by PT era we know their stance on it by that time.

This was discussed a little back and I forgot all the answers. Sometime in the 45 years between Great Sith War and Revan the Order became stricter regarding this rule to being very very strict about it much later. Emotional bonds were too risky and unpredictable.

Take note though that during the Great Sith War these Jedi having relationships appear to be in the minority. Even in the PT era, Ki-Adi-Mundi had several wives and children but he's an extreme exception as his Cerean males are rare.
"What's the difference between hot and cold doughnuts?"
"The difference is: cold ones I can eat 8, hot ones I can eat 48!"

Petvin's Avatar


Petvin
05.08.2014 , 03:45 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by sell-dog View Post
Nomi Sunrider is a better example. She was untrained, married to an active Jedi, had a child with him, and then began her training after his murder. There are a couple more examples of Jedi relationships during the Great Sith War.

As in the Revan novel it's made clear that his marriage is looked down upon by the Order. Then by PT era we know their stance on it by that time.

This was discussed a little back and I forgot all the answers. Sometime in the 45 years between Great Sith War and Revan the Order became stricter regarding this rule to being very very strict about it much later. Emotional bonds were too risky and unpredictable.

Take note though that during the Great Sith War these Jedi having relationships appear to be in the minority. Even in the PT era, Ki-Adi-Mundi had several wives and children but he's an extreme exception as his Cerean males are rare.
Thank you for the info, now i understand And i don't understand how i could forget about Nomi.
No god ever gave any man anything, nor ever answered any prayer at any time - nor ever will. Madalyn Murray O'Hair

The Cosmos is all that is or was or ever will be. Carl Sagan

sanctified's Avatar


sanctified
05.11.2014 , 08:24 PM | #4
I feel a certain degree of frustration with discussions like this, because of the innate contrariness of the stance involved.

If you want to be a Jedi, then you should commit to being a Jedi. It's firmly established that being a Jedi involves personal sacrifice and commitment. The commitment is to the Order and the Republic. The sacrifice is binding personal attachment.

People like the lightsabers. They like the powers. They like the authority. They like all the perks that come with being a Jedi, except personal sacrifice and self-discipline. You add those two ingredients to the mix, and all of a sudden the council is an archaic collection of short-sided old dummies who have no right telling you how to live your life, and blah-blah-blah.

I guess people just like playing the part of the arrogant anti-hero who knows better than society who raised him, gave him opportunities to better himself, and asked for nothing in return except loyalty.
Playing since October 1st, 2011. Squad 238 for life.

psandak's Avatar


psandak
05.11.2014 , 09:03 PM | #5
Relationships and marriage are not forbidden, they are highly discouraged. If you go through the male JK and Kira relationship you will learn several things.
Probability 101
The Harbinger, Ortzid Legacy
Dalkery - Sawbones, Car'beerd - Jedi Guardian,
Blairnah - Jedi Sage, Ulunnes - Commando

NullanSevens's Avatar


NullanSevens
05.11.2014 , 09:10 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctified View Post
I feel a certain degree of frustration with discussions like this, because of the innate contrariness of the stance involved.

If you want to be a Jedi, then you should commit to being a Jedi. It's firmly established that being a Jedi involves personal sacrifice and commitment. The commitment is to the Order and the Republic. The sacrifice is binding personal attachment.

People like the lightsabers. They like the powers. They like the authority. They like all the perks that come with being a Jedi, except personal sacrifice and self-discipline. You add those two ingredients to the mix, and all of a sudden the council is an archaic collection of short-sided old dummies who have no right telling you how to live your life, and blah-blah-blah.

I guess people just like playing the part of the arrogant anti-hero who knows better than society who raised him, gave him opportunities to better himself, and asked for nothing in return except loyalty.
I couldn't have said it better myself.

DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
05.11.2014 , 09:24 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctified View Post
I feel a certain degree of frustration with discussions like this, because of the innate contrariness of the stance involved.

If you want to be a Jedi, then you should commit to being a Jedi. It's firmly established that being a Jedi involves personal sacrifice and commitment. The commitment is to the Order and the Republic. The sacrifice is binding personal attachment.

People like the lightsabers. They like the powers. They like the authority. They like all the perks that come with being a Jedi, except personal sacrifice and self-discipline. You add those two ingredients to the mix, and all of a sudden the council is an archaic collection of short-sided old dummies who have no right telling you how to live your life, and blah-blah-blah.

I guess people just like playing the part of the arrogant anti-hero who knows better than society who raised him, gave him opportunities to better himself, and asked for nothing in return except loyalty.
I understand where you're coming from, and agree that a lot of people who are critics of the "attachment rule" do legitimately fall into the category of people who just want to have their cake and eat it too.

BUT, there is a different between loyalty and blind loyalty. You can support an organization overall, but still not agree with every single aspect of their philosophy. And there can reasonably be different degrees of how far you're going to go in opposition to the parts you disagree with.

There is nothing inconsistent with saying "I love my country/religion/organization" and at the same time saying "I disagree with my country/religion/organization doing [X]."

In some cases that disagreement will drive a person to say "I cannot, in good conscience remain a part of this group as long as that aspect is a part of it" in other cases that may lead a person to say "I do not agree with this aspect, so I will engage in civil disobedience (willfully disobeying it) to oppose it" or it may just lead to a person saying "I do not agree with this aspect, I will speak out against it being the rule and call for it to be changed, but as long as it remains the rule I will acquiesce and follow it out of respect for the organization as a whole."

All three are understandable and realistic responses.
Given the choice whether to rule a corrupt and failing empire or to challenge the fates for another throw, a better throw, against one's destiny, what was a king to do?
But does one ever truly have a choice? One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate, and thus defy the tyrannous stars.
~Kain

Petvin's Avatar


Petvin
05.12.2014 , 05:11 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctified View Post
I feel a certain degree of frustration with discussions like this, because of the innate contrariness of the stance involved.

If you want to be a Jedi, then you should commit to being a Jedi. It's firmly established that being a Jedi involves personal sacrifice and commitment. The commitment is to the Order and the Republic. The sacrifice is binding personal attachment.

People like the lightsabers. They like the powers. They like the authority. They like all the perks that come with being a Jedi, except personal sacrifice and self-discipline. You add those two ingredients to the mix, and all of a sudden the council is an archaic collection of short-sided old dummies who have no right telling you how to live your life, and blah-blah-blah.

I guess people just like playing the part of the arrogant anti-hero who knows better than society who raised him, gave him opportunities to better himself, and asked for nothing in return except loyalty.
Where in the novels is Nomi a arrogant anti-hero? Luke? Jaina? those 3 (among others) are as self sacrificing as they come
No god ever gave any man anything, nor ever answered any prayer at any time - nor ever will. Madalyn Murray O'Hair

The Cosmos is all that is or was or ever will be. Carl Sagan

t-darko's Avatar


t-darko
05.12.2014 , 05:40 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctified View Post
I feel a certain degree of frustration with discussions like this, because of the innate contrariness of the stance involved.

If you want to be a Jedi, then you should commit to being a Jedi. It's firmly established that being a Jedi involves personal sacrifice and commitment. The commitment is to the Order and the Republic. The sacrifice is binding personal attachment.

People like the lightsabers. They like the powers. They like the authority. They like all the perks that come with being a Jedi, except personal sacrifice and self-discipline. You add those two ingredients to the mix, and all of a sudden the council is an archaic collection of short-sided old dummies who have no right telling you how to live your life, and blah-blah-blah.

I guess people just like playing the part of the arrogant anti-hero who knows better than society who raised him, gave him opportunities to better himself, and asked for nothing in return except loyalty.
Now first of all The Expanded Universe has been declared non Canon. BUT if you have a problem with it the unclear rules of attachment you should do some research there as it's the only place that offers some kind of explanation. The Jedi order we experience in the prequels marks the end of the Old Republics Golden age, the ways of the Jedi order you are most familiar with comes from that time period. The final battle of Ruusan marks the beginning of that age, and the events leading up to that made the order set the firm rules you are the most familiar with, recruitment of younglings only and the no attachment rule. As why there came a rule of no attachment isn't only that envy is a temptation to the darkside but offsprings off two force sensitives will post a possible darkside threat, there as you should look up the matter of 'The Lost' and 'The Fallen'.

septembersphinx's Avatar


septembersphinx
05.13.2014 , 08:43 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by psandak View Post
Relationships and marriage are not forbidden, they are highly discouraged. If you go through the male JK and Kira relationship you will learn several things.
You'll learn several more with the female consular and Felix Iresso relationship.

It can be played purely light sided and with the complete blessing of the order. Iresso has to answer a bunch of questions about what he thinks the relationship is and where it's going, but he also comes to an understanding of why and even thinks that it's ultimately helpful.