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Darth Maul Vs. Malgus & Vindican

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Darth Maul Vs. Malgus & Vindican

S_W_LeGenD's Avatar


S_W_LeGenD
05.05.2014 , 10:19 AM | #11
Among the Sith, Lords are fewest in number.

Weak eventually get culled from the higher echelons of power within the Empire. Their gang tactics can work for a while but they eventually flop because Sith do not last as friends of each other.

To become Sith, an acolyte must face and conquer many trails. Each challenge tests combat prowess, talent with the dark side, and knowledge of Sith Code. Such trails can occur anywhere on Korriban, from the dank cells of the Sith Academy jail to the deadly tomb of Naga Sadow. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)
My favorite Star Wars book: Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

My favorite Star Wars character: Vitiate

sell-dog's Avatar


sell-dog
05.05.2014 , 10:35 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
Reconstituted ancient Sith Empire have produced some of the finest Sith in the mythos. However, these Sith don't have same level of hype as the Sith of Rule of Two, acknowledgement bias I guess.
Literally anyone born in the Sith Empire meeting some midichlorian criterion was put into the Sith Academy. The Empire really did not care who among these acolytes made it through and who did not. You keep using the intense competition but it truly is not relevant. If I have a bunch of pupils running around with D level skills and you have one pupil of grade A material, who has the better pupils? You do. More does not always mean better. I would take 1 share of Apple stock over 50 shares of Radioshack stock any day of the week.

You also seem to think that Rule of Two apprentices were pampered and sheltered from the galaxy and confrontation. This is bluntly not true. Bane created the Rule of Two to return the Sith to a fashion more similar to TOR era by making the Sith as fearful of each other as well as their enemy. They were training someone that would one day challenge them. Just because the Rule of Two Sith did not run in with Jedi as often does not mean they didn't face powerful enemies as there are still plenty of powerful people in the galaxy including each other.

The Sith could take in so many recruits because they were the only executive force in their Empire. The Rule of Two Sith couldn't take any chances on their apprentices. Not only did they need to select someone with the potential of becoming more powerful than themselves, they also needed apprentices who could maintain the secrecy/hiding in the shadows element they needed. TOR (my favorite era by the way) era had some great Warriors but they were often stubborn and egotistical leading them to reckless behavior. A warrior that is constantly flashing their red lightsaber around without thought still has use in the Sith Empire. Such an individual could never be in the Rule of Two.

The Darth Plag novel states directly that Masters began to use their own offspring as apprentices. This is in part because they could shield their offspring from Jedi recruiters, but also because no one else had the Force potential they had/needed for an apprentice.

Most importantly, every member of the Rule of Two that has been developed has employed some use of TK, Persuasion, Concealment, or other Force ability as children without training or even knowing that they were doing it. Ie, the Force was so very inherit to the Sith of the Rule of Two. The only Sith of TOR era, at the moment, to have such an claim at the moment is Vitiate...not even Malgus as he had already had some informal lessons in the Force before he killed his father's servant.

It is not just biased that give merit to Banite Sith. Let's also be honest, the reason Banite Sith are sometimes undervalued is because they do not lie within the pages of SWTORE.
"What's the difference between hot and cold doughnuts?"
"The difference is: cold ones I can eat 8, hot ones I can eat 48!"

sell-dog's Avatar


sell-dog
05.05.2014 , 10:37 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
Among the Sith, Lords are fewest in number.

Weak eventually get culled from the higher echelons of power within the Empire. Their gang tactics can work for a while but they eventually flop because Sith do not last as friends of each other.

To become Sith, an acolyte must face and conquer many trails. Each challenge tests combat prowess, talent with the dark side, and knowledge of Sith Code. Such trails can occur anywhere on Korriban, from the dank cells of the Sith Academy jail to the deadly tomb of Naga Sadow. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)
Banite Sith Apprentices have defeated Jedi Masters. I think that's more difficult than any trial the Academy gives.
"What's the difference between hot and cold doughnuts?"
"The difference is: cold ones I can eat 8, hot ones I can eat 48!"

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
05.05.2014 , 10:56 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
Among the Sith, Lords are fewest in number.

Weak eventually get culled from the higher echelons of power within the Empire. Their gang tactics can work for a while but they eventually flop because Sith do not last as friends of each other.

To become Sith, an acolyte must face and conquer many trails. Each challenge tests combat prowess, talent with the dark side, and knowledge of Sith Code. Such trails can occur anywhere on Korriban, from the dank cells of the Sith Academy jail to the deadly tomb of Naga Sadow. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)
So how to you explain Darth Vowrawn? A Dark Council member no less? His ascension and the retention of his position was fueled by cunning and he lacked powerful Force mastery. Darth Zhorrid was also rather weak in the Force, and yet Jadus had her manipulated into power. And then we have Zash, who offed Darth Skotia by severely weakening him and getting her apprentice to dispose of him, which resulted in her being appointed as a Darth. Darth Baras also had his apprentices gang up on Vengean to take him down, ascending to the Dark Council as a result.

These are just a few examples of the system being undermined all the way to the top. And that's without taking into account Sith Lords and Darths who are pitifully weak, clearly the trials on Korriban are not as difficult as you think.

I mean are you seriously telling me these folks are better than the Order of the Sith Lords? Lord themselves no less?

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
05.05.2014 , 11:00 AM | #15
Well, you gotta admit that being called slave a million times a day is pretty stressful. Surely that would breed some pretty powerful Sith Lords, right, slave?
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
05.05.2014 , 11:07 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Well, you gotta admit that being called slave a million times a day is pretty stressful. Surely that would breed some pretty powerful Sith Lords, right, slave?
Ha ha, nice one.

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
05.05.2014 , 11:08 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Well, you gotta admit that being called slave a million times a day is pretty stressful. Surely that would breed some pretty powerful Sith Lords, right, slave?
No one asked you, slave. You shall speak when spoken to.
We all live or die as Krayt wills, Stryfe. At his word, I would cut out my own heart. Or yours.
CelÚna Mercenary Cathinka Seeliara Sage

marcelo_sdk's Avatar


marcelo_sdk
05.05.2014 , 11:32 AM | #18
We gotta out of topic, I feel. We are discussing the overall power of the orders, that's not the matter at hand. By the time of the Sith Empire's return, Malgus was already one of the most powerful Sith, and later he would become the deadliest being in the Galaxy, not counting the Emperor of course. At his prime, he was superior to most Sith from the Rule of Two.

Regarding Maul, there's a lot of factors. As a duelist, there's no doubt he is able to hold them both, we are talking about someone that Sidious couldn't defeat through lightsaber combat, even utilizing Jar'Kai. And I don't think Vindican and Malgus powers, combined, would be enough to overpower him with Force. So, if we are talking about Malgus at the time of the Return cinematic, I think Maul can defeat both him and Vindican. Against Malgus, alone, at his prime, I'm not so sure.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
05.05.2014 , 11:42 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Malgus didn't really show any force ability as of Return, whereas Maul at least as of TPM has shown some force ability. At any rate, Malgus doesn't show to be very powerful in using The Force at that point in time. Besides most battles come down to straight dueling, unless one of the combatants completely outclasses the other in Force prowess which isn't the case here.
I forgot that this was not Malgus at his peak, that said he still did show impressive strength when he overwhelmed Darach - I would not so readily assume he had not achieved much of his potential by then. Many Sith did.

Given that though, and given Maul's endurance capabilities I'd give him the win.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
05.05.2014 , 11:49 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I forgot that this was not Malgus at his peak, that said he still did show impressive strength when he overwhelmed Darach - I would not so readily assume he had not achieved much of his potential by then. Many Sith did.

Given that though, and given Maul's endurance capabilities I'd give him the win.
Sure he overwhelmed Darach but that isn't nothing Maul wouldn't be able to replicate, this being the same Maul that can punch through Wampa's torsos and broke through durasteel armor.

But were in agreement anyhow.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.