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GTN Buy Orders - Now Is The Time

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
GTN Buy Orders - Now Is The Time

BadOrb's Avatar


BadOrb
05.04.2014 , 10:41 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Elfa View Post
I don't think a person's stronghold will be accessible without the owner there. I mean each one will be an instance like ships and there isn't a way to board someone else's ship without them there.
O that would be a shame , in PSU we had a separate side room where the shop would be and you could lock your shop/room for privacy with a 4 digit numbered code. It was just a pipe dream really but if they would implement something like that it would keep me playing SWTOR until my grave or it shuts down. O and you had a search engine from a console in your shop and then once you found an item you wanted you just zoned in to their shop / room to purchase said item.

Cheers,

BadOrb.
'Ah you think micro transactions are your ally ? The DLC betrays you because it belongs to me , when your home world is monetized , you have my permission to buy'.
"Oh goody. Lord Douchebag McFuzzlebunny can now be related to me if he see's my legacy name and decides he likes it." quote from Selvec 09/06/12

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
05.04.2014 , 12:18 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Vandicus View Post
I like the idea.
Buy orders sound benign on the surface... but they would introduce some very bad mechanics in the way the economy works in this game. What do I mean? Players, being clever little rodents in general, would find ways to use it to exploit and manipulate the market. It's a common practice in other MMOs where it is used and becomes it's own form of PvP in most cases.

I'm not saying it's evil or anything.. only that it represents an exploitation window into an otherwise stable and largely unexploited player economy. If players would all behave and use it as intended...no harm, no foul, but we all know that that is NOT how players play MMOs.

Note: there are also no bidding in SWTORs GTN either.. and it makes for a crisp and tiddy trading economy IMO (and I play the economy every day in this game). There is also no addons/plug-ins allowed in this game, which means everyone plays on the same level playing field in the Market. These are good things IMO.
Negativity achieves nothing positive or productive. It's hostile and it reveals a persons true character. It's a useless and miserable way to spend one's time, IMO ... but some people like being miserable I guess. This is true in real life and it is true inside MMOs.

Deewe's Avatar


Deewe
05.04.2014 , 12:32 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Elfa View Post
I'm not against increasing sell times, but that only solves the problem of having to put you junk up for sale more often and not the issue at hand.
Totally agree, but it would really help managing sales. Then I'd go with a repost item.
Would be convenient.

The actual system is very annoying to use and well one really needs credits to use it.
Quote: Originally Posted by BadOrb View Post
in PSU we had a separate side room where the shop would be and you could lock your shop/room for privacy with a 4 digit numbered code. It was just a pipe dream really but if they would implement something like that it would keep me playing SWTOR until my grave or it shuts down. O and you had a search engine from a console in your shop and then once you found an item you wanted you just zoned in to their shop / room to purchase said item.

Cheers,

BadOrb.
SWG had this 11 years ago...

Well along the ability to send email from your datapad too and many other things... plus bugs

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
05.04.2014 , 12:35 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Buy orders sound benign on the surface... but they would introduce some very bad mechanics in the way the economy works in this game. What do I mean? Players, being clever little rodents in general, would find ways to use it to exploit and manipulate the market. It's a common practice in other MMOs where it is used and becomes it's own form of PvP in most cases.
Can you give an example of how buy orders are used to exploit, manipulate the market, and become it's own form of PvP?

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
05.04.2014 , 12:50 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Can you give an example of how buy orders are used to exploit, manipulate the market, and become it's own form of PvP?
Yes. Buy orders are commonly used by market players to move markets up/down on command in MMOs where they are allowed. They are an integral component to manipulating prices to advantage, and sometimes to specifically disadvantage other players. Further, they are most harmful when used by "silent" cartels to move the market around.

As for PvP....anyone who plays the markets in MMOs at all knows full well what I mean by economic PvP, so I don't believe that requires more explanation or example.

Don't get me wrong... as a market player myself, I would enjoy buy orders, but the reality is I see the harm they do (vs the good they offer). This comes down to the core issue ---> players can and will manipulate anything and everything they can find that can be manipulated.

Also, buy-orders encourage credit farmers/sellers, and I personally do not want to see mechanics added that make their efforts easier.
Negativity achieves nothing positive or productive. It's hostile and it reveals a persons true character. It's a useless and miserable way to spend one's time, IMO ... but some people like being miserable I guess. This is true in real life and it is true inside MMOs.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
05.04.2014 , 12:52 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Yes. Buy orders are commonly used by market players to move markets up/down on command in MMOs where they are allowed. They are an integral component to manipulating prices to advantage, and sometimes to specifically disadvantage other players. Further, they are most harmful when used by "silent" cartels to move the market around.
Is this somehow worse than sell orders?

wjrasmussen's Avatar


wjrasmussen
05.04.2014 , 01:01 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Elfa View Post
Buy orders are a part of nearly all MMO's.
Which of the top 10 mmorpgs have buy orders?
A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault. ~John Henry Newman

Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten.

Elfa's Avatar


Elfa
05.04.2014 , 01:04 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Yes. Buy orders are commonly used by market players to move markets up/down on command in MMOs where they are allowed. They are an integral component to manipulating prices to advantage, and sometimes to specifically disadvantage other players. Further, they are most harmful when used by "silent" cartels to move the market around.

As for PvP....anyone who plays the markets in MMOs at all knows full well what I mean by economic PvP, so I don't believe that requires more explanation or example.

Don't get me wrong... as a market player myself, I would enjoy buy orders, but the reality is I see the harm they do (vs the good they offer). This comes down to the core issue ---> players can and will manipulate anything and everything they can find that can be manipulated.

Also, buy-orders encourage credit farmers/sellers, and I personally do not want to see mechanics added that make their efforts easier.
Well, like I said, you would need to design it in a way to limit those issues to a minimum. That said, players exploit everything, but you can't restrain new avenues of play and thought some people are jerks, you just have to think ahead and correct along the way.

On the other hand, Economic PVP can also be a good thing as it adds new challenges and creates clever ways of moving goods and making profit, I'm not against that. I'm not talking about going spreadsheets in space like EVE, but a little back and forth can be a good thing.
I'd like to sit down with the guy responsible for having Busta Rhymes fight Michael Myers in HALLOWEEN RESURRECTION. Then, before he could speak, I would slap him so hard his face would explode and his dog would die." - Jim Law

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
05.04.2014 , 01:05 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Is this somehow worse than sell orders?
Sell orders tend to be self limiting due to dynamic player competition. Buy orders are more complex and as such inject new degrees of freedom to exploit. But the real harm is the combination of the two in one market. I'm not saying it would be impossible to add buy orders to the GTN.. just that it would be quite difficult to do so in a manner that prevents exploitation of market prices.

Buy orders simply inject more issues into a player economy then the conveniences they provide for players.

The GTN is crisp and straightforward as currently implemented. It still needs some QoL features for listing, filtering searches, etc.... but it does not need Buy orders.
Negativity achieves nothing positive or productive. It's hostile and it reveals a persons true character. It's a useless and miserable way to spend one's time, IMO ... but some people like being miserable I guess. This is true in real life and it is true inside MMOs.

Elfa's Avatar


Elfa
05.04.2014 , 01:06 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by wjrasmussen View Post
Which of the top 10 mmorpgs have buy orders?
I have no earthly clue. I haven't played any other MMO's in 2 and a half years. Before that, I played a few and they did have them, so I imagine its a part of all the best ones right?

Are you interested in discrediting my viewpoint by way of misspoken proxy?
I'd like to sit down with the guy responsible for having Busta Rhymes fight Michael Myers in HALLOWEEN RESURRECTION. Then, before he could speak, I would slap him so hard his face would explode and his dog would die." - Jim Law