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Legends =/= Non-Canon


Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.26.2014 , 05:26 AM | #1
legend
ˈlɛdʒ(ə)nd/

noun

1. a traditional story sometimes popularly regarded as historical but not authenticated.
"the legend of King Arthur"


As I'm sure we are all now aware Disney has announced that the new movies will be overriding the post-ROTJ EU and that those stories as well as (as far as we are know) the rest/majority of the EU will be published under the "Legends" banner. But a lot of people are wrongly assuming that this means they are scrapping the EU.

That is the EU is now N-Canon. This is not true. The EU is still part of the continuity, its just not gospel. Just because something is not "canon" doesn't mean its not part of the Star Wars continuity, part of the story.

In reality, very little is changing. "Canon" for Lucasfilm has always been used exclusively in terms of G-Canon and T-Canon, the Lucas-endorsed stories that cannot and will not be changed and everything else has to conform to. Whereas the rest of the EU have always just been stories, endorsed by Lucasfilm, but re-writable at any time.

C-Canon and the rest of the tiers in this sense are merely for the sake of organisation, not real canon, and as Leland Chee has said are now becoming increasingly internal. The fans however have took it upon themselves to assume that G-Canon, T-Canon and C-Canon are all part of the same static continuity, but just different levels.

But this is not exactly the case, and never has been. To quote several sources, predating this announcement:
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"Legends" is making the existing EU no more invalid or valid than it already was. The Story Group is making changes yes, but what they are really doing is just reinforcing all of the above. The old hierarchy system is being swept away, and "canon" is being reinforced as just G-Canon works. However what the Story Group are simultaneously trying to do is make the EU more unified and cohesive. To do that they are making new additions to the EU part of canon.

This is where Legends comes in, honestly the way I see it the title is just peripheral. Its just a different way of defining the existing tiers. Its just another label for everything not G-Canon or T-Canon, but it is not N-Canon. This stuff still "happened" in the sense that it is an accurate portrayal of the Star Wars Universe and conforms to the canon.

So what should we expect in the future? On one hand, retcons. Now that novels etc. have been invited into the Canon Club they will likely adopt the same policy as TCW, stay with in the bounds of what already exists and draw upon it, but overwrite where necessary. Because the only thing that is really happening here is that the new EU is now being given this power. This is not such a bad thing, given the minimal changes TCW made to the universe. And just because they have this power, doesn't mean they'll exercise it, they are not trailblazing a new EU. I can't stress that enough.

On the plus side is means that future EU will now be more well-regarded, these new books being published e.g. New Dawn, Tarkin, Lords of the Sith etc. are now part of the Holy Gospel! We should assume that they won't be changed or overwritten in the future and they'll be considered a more accurate portrayal of the Star Wars universe than ever before. And of course, any "Legends" referenced in them will be elevated to a more stable tier.

But lets not get our knickers in a twist and some how assume that TOR never happened, it did. Heck its referenced in TCW, as is Darth Bane and Darth Plagueis. It still happened and probably won't be retconned unless they decide to make a cartoon of it i.e. do a revamp of that era like TCW did, and like Rebels are doing.

So enough of this talk about "salvaging" and "scrapping" and enough of these claims that Disney is evil and has no respect for the EU, and lets put a hold on making the decision that your never going to read an EU book again.

P.S. Wish me luck, I'm posting this in General Discussion as well...

Sanguiluna's Avatar


Sanguiluna
04.26.2014 , 07:40 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
[COLOR=#CC9E42][COLOR=#EAD0A5]legend
ˈlɛdʒ(ə)nd/

noun

1. a traditional story sometimes popularly regarded as historical but not authenticated.
"the legend of King Arthur"[/COLOR
Remember too that the Star Wars saga all takes place "A long time ago", as the opening text constantly reminds us, so technically ALL Star Wars stories take place in the past. The use of the term "Legends" suggests that, similar to legends and myths in the real world, these stories will be stories where it's up to the individual to accept them as true or not, while all the material in the One Canon would be considered "History" whose veracity is undisputed.

Real world example: Jesus. Historically, a Jewish carpenter from Nazareth who preached, until he was executed by the Romans. But according to Biblical legend, he also rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven. The historical Jesus who preached and died is undeniable, but whether or not he rose again and ascended is up to whether or not you accept the Bible as fact.

SW example: Palpatine. He dies in Episode VI, which is considered "history" in the SW universe. But according to "Dark Empire", Palpatine returns from death in a clone body and tries to conquer the galaxy. The "historical Palpatine" who perished in the Battle of Endor is an undeniable fact, but whether or not he returned from the dead as a clone is up to whether or not you accept "Dark Empire" as true/canon.

I predict a couple years from now, we'll be seeing new fandom wars between the "Canon-only" crowd and the "pro-Legends" crowd, not all that unlike the real world debates we see between archaeologists and theologians, or between Catholics and "Bible-only" Christians; the "Canonists" with their "It's only true if it's canonized" philosophy and the "Legendist" with their "It's true unless proven false" philosophy.

Of course we've also had legends once commonly accepted by people that lose credibility in the light of new historical or archaeological discovery. Likewise, I expect some Legends stories may lose their canonical value in light of new EU stories or the new trilogy. But by no means should that mean that they ought to just be abandoned and ignored; Bram Stoker's "Dracula" will always be one of my all-time favorite books, and the mere fact that the real Vlad Tepes was never a vampire doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the novel.

Basically the Canon/Legend format isn't all that unlike the old G/C-Canon format. The only difference now is that, for the very first time in the history of the franchise, we'll now have EU material that will be considered undisputedly canon like the upcoming "Heir to the Jedi" and "Lords of the Sith" novels, and the upcoming "Rebels" show.
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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.26.2014 , 08:09 AM | #3
^^Basically this, its the whole foggy window thing all over again.

You know my concerns about multiple universes and the importance of perspective, but I feel that this is actually a good way of doing it. They still "happened" but not perhaps as they are written.

I can't say I look forward to the discussion, but at the very least it has real world connotations!

The best thing about this though is that future EU won't be legend, but gospel.

EDIT: Excellent way of putting it by the way, bravo.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
04.26.2014 , 09:37 AM | #4
How many people do you expect to get this? Right now people are being swept up in the tidal wave that is now "Legends." Maybe when things calm down, but we both know what can happen because of this latest announcement.
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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.26.2014 , 09:42 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
How many people do you expect to get this? Right now people are being swept up in the tidal wave that is now "Legends." Maybe when things calm down, but we both know what can happen because of this latest announcement.
Quite right, but you know what people are like, once they have an idea in their head its difficult to get it out, best spread the word now while they're still pliable. We must save as many as we can!

P.S. What rubs me wrong is how the media, every single time, use this is fodder for their "EU is dead" campaign.

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marcelo_sdk
04.26.2014 , 10:03 AM | #6
For me, they gave a lot of explanations to appease the post-RotJ EU fans, which I'm not, and for me, it looks like things will continue as it always was.

A lot of this "on screen is the only real canon" is clearly a maneuver to promote their productions on that segment, since it's the most lucrative. They are fans like us, and like us, at least for me, the EU is valid since it doesn't clash with the films story. And so it'll be from now on, they said nothing different from that. I really didn't undertstand and such a big fuss was made about that announcement.
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Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
04.26.2014 , 11:12 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Quite right, but you know what people are like, once they have an idea in their head its difficult to get it out, best spread the word now while they're still pliable. We must save as many as we can!

P.S. What rubs me wrong is how the media, every single time, use this is fodder for their "EU is dead" campaign.
Well, we'll see where it goes.

But let's be honest, we both know where this is going regarding certain "arguments."
Added Chapter 63 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

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Skodan
04.26.2014 , 11:36 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Well, we'll see where it goes.

But let's be honest, we both know where this is going regarding certain "arguments."
i look at it like comparing the old star trek stuff to the abrams star trek.

in a way its almost like an alternate universe where the EU stuff occurred and ep 7-9 will be the original universe's story.

the EU stuff imo is still valid
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ShadowMudkip
04.26.2014 , 11:41 AM | #9
Beni, or whoever, can you please state the different levels of canon and their level of authority? For example, I know that their is a thing called G-Canon, but I'm not exactly what that means.

Basically can someone explain the canon lingo?
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Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
04.26.2014 , 11:42 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by ShadowMudkip View Post
Beni, or whoever, can you please state the different levels of canon and their level of authority? For example, I know that their is a thing called G-Canon, but I'm not exactly what that means.

Basically can someone explain the canon lingo?
There is no canon lingo anymore. They got rid of the canon hierarchy a while back.
Added Chapter 63 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus