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Ranked daily/weeklies

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Ranked daily/weeklies
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idnewton's Avatar


idnewton
04.22.2014 , 01:52 AM | #111
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterSLC View Post
Ok, why the f*** do so many people think a simple daily ranked quest is going to cause all the bads to come flooding in.
Because it will. You know 'that guy' who has to complete every quest in the game on every planet in every area on every faction? Yeah, there's about fifty thousand of them. You're going to get to know them very well... in the rage PMs following a landslide ***-whooping
PRE-ORDER ACCOUNT LEGACY LEVEL 50 LEVEL +55s: 24
ETERNAL WARRIOR CHEEVO POINTS: +31,000

caronome's Avatar


caronome
04.22.2014 , 04:16 AM | #112
This is ... unexpected.

IMO, it will probably cause a slight increase in the quality of play and certainly a decrease in the quantity of players. Considering that queue times, especially on unbalanced servers like mine, are already long this will exacerbate the problem. Without a queue improvement, looking out towards summer doldrums, TESO and Wildstar, then doing things like this which reduce pvp participation and increase queues seems like an odd business decision.

It will also have a small reduction in unranked 55 participation - I can't be unique. After we leveled a number of toons with WZ, a friend convinced me we needed to try 55 PvP and we just started the process of getting gear. To me this is a big neon sign that I don't want to do ranked at least on my server. So if I am not going to do ranked, why do the long and death-filled process of getting gear in unranked?

Thanks for letting us know in advance; since I no longer need ranked comms, my alts can go back to converting warzone comms eventually into credits.

BDSMKane's Avatar


BDSMKane
04.22.2014 , 04:16 AM | #113
Just wanted to throw in my opinion as a casual warzone player who dislikes competitive PvP.

I'm 100% behind the idea of wins only counting for ranked queue. As a casual, I agree that the competitive spirit of PvP should only exist in ranked matches and planetary PvP environments. I'm not advocating people not trying or caring in unranked mind you, simply that the elitism and aggression belongs in the ranked arenas, and not in regular warzones.

Paokzu's Avatar


Paokzu
04.22.2014 , 04:44 AM | #114
Quote: Originally Posted by AlexModny View Post
This is understandable and will happen to many players, even me no doubt =/

However we feel that having wins be the only criteria is a better way to go instead of making them games played. This is because of the incentive to play the gamemode for the right reasons (to win) is much lower for someone who is just interested in completing the daily/weekly. A percentage of the Ranked population would be queuing just to complete a quest and that would be detrimental to the team. We feel Games Played with an incentive (Double counts for Wins) is more acceptable in Unranked games because of the larger team size (less personal impact on if your team wins or loses) and more casual atmosphere.

This is our current philosophy on the choice we made but if it isn't working out we will make adjustments where and when possible.

Cheers!
The number of people will say 'Ooo, I'm going to learn the warzone now and cooperate towards the objective.' is going to be a very low percentage. The majority will just keep 'kill farming' regardless of what you dangle before them. Or worse maybe they'll just stop queuing; with PvP obviously being BWs main focus I doubt thats the outcome you intend though it would be interesting to see.
"You should never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die."
http://www.cracked.com/blog/understa...ario-brothers/

MorgothPl's Avatar


MorgothPl
04.22.2014 , 05:00 AM | #115
My few cents as that "Dreaded PVE-er, who started playing PvP". Yes, I farmed regular WZs for the dailies/weeklies ranked comms and then farmed level 40 Valor, so I could trade regular for ranked to get the ranked relics. I learned a lot in WZs and about PvP, and managed even to buy myself few pieces of, now obsolete regular 55 gear (can't remember the name, but it was former regular comms gear).

Never though I joined ranked, because it would be wrong IMO - didn't have enough gear and experience to compete with fully geared people, and by this I knew, I'd cause my team to loose the fight, so it would not be right with me. (Yes, some of us, PVE-ers have conscience :P). But as a " very casual PvP-er", I like the change of "only wins count in ranked" - it will force people to stop running like headless chickens and worry only about medals, but will actually might enforce team spirit and working together - thing that you barely see in regular WZ. Seriously, sometimes I was, even in my crap gear and with low pvp experience, doing more towards achieving victory, than guys from PvP guilds in PvP gear.

SomeJagoff's Avatar


SomeJagoff
04.22.2014 , 05:49 AM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by AlexModny View Post
However we feel that having wins be the only criteria is a better way to go instead of making them games played. This is because of the incentive to play the gamemode for the right reasons (to win) is much lower for someone who is just interested in completing the daily/weekly. A percentage of the Ranked population would be queuing just to complete a quest and that would be detrimental to the team.
Sweet, the 5-10 people left in the game who take pvp seriously and queue ranked "to win" should be pleased. And for potential other hundreds who may have had an incentive to queue ranked to get their teeth knocked in in hopes of getting at least something to show for it...now have none.

It really would be nice if you guys would take a day and really brainstorm on what direction you want "PVP" to go in this game.

You "only want people to queue ranked with the intention of winning" but yet you have Bolster in Ranked Arenas, just in case "somebody serious about ranked" just happened to forget to queue with PVP gear? Or just to hold the hands of new people just trying it out so don't get their teeth knocked in and have a "bad experience" ? But when they lose and get no credit towards the ranked weekly, no hand holding then and only the best of the best need apply?

It should also go without saying that making these ranked missions advance through "Wins Only" will no doubt encourage queue syncing and win trading, vs if it was just "matches played" you'd actually have people willing to queue ranked and get their teeth knocked in if it meant they'd at least get Something out if it.

I somewhat could understand making a Group Ranked daily/weekly mission require wins only to advance (since there are very few "teams" queuing for ranked under the "Group" queue), but Yolo Queue as well? With the virtual lack of any discernable matchmaking? "sorry, even though your whole team is 1500 or below, you're facing off against a premade team of 2400 because, well, there's nobody else, so sucks for you that you'll get no progress towards this mission, But!...But!...Keep queueing ranked, because your "Only" incentive should be to queue ranked because you like queuing ranked!"

Yeah that philosophy is what has killed ranked in this game. It doesn't just punish those being farmed either, but those farming, since when people stop queuing, the top players doing the farming have no one to play against either, so then everyone who wants to even try ranked gets the joy of sitting in queue for hours on end for a pop that will never come and completely wasting their time. Then it's back to pugstomping regs.

To be clear, chances are high that even with "matches played" there still would be long waits for ranked vs regular matches, but it would no doubt be significantly higher.

I know many applauded you for this decision Alex, and in principle I agree with you as well, but the reality is that there are Very few people left in the game who care about ranked pvp to begin with, so really, it's not a choice of:

"Games with skilled players vs other skilled players -Or- games with skilled players vs mix of skilled/unskilled players trying to farm comms"

but simply:

"Games with a mix of skilled/unskilled players vs skilled/unskilled players trying to farm comms -Or- NO games at all."

In that case, it would obviously be better to have Some games pop, with people there to farm comms or not, than just being forced to troll /2 begging people to queue group/solo every time you want a pop.

For the few remaining players who spend hours trying to get others to queue or schedule to play other teams they know, this doesn't really affect them, since they queue ranked because they enjoy ranked. Eventually though, when those people tire of the effort involved in organizing for hours for 40mins of ranked matches and when nobody new wants to queue ranked knowing that they're going to lose and get nothing out of it by way of mission rewards or match comms, then ranked arenas will be completely dead.

So as I said at the beginning, you and your team should really sit down and brainstorm what direction you want pvp to go in this game with the remaining PVP population, being mindful of New players joining the game. Do you want to encourage people to participate in ranked and increase the ranked population as a whole or just cater to the last 5-10 remaining people who are Die Hard SWTOR Ranked PVPers?

The choice is yours and yours alone.
Free Character Transfer & Other Goodies: http://www.swtor.com/r/bgpK6G

Skinnychalk's Avatar


Skinnychalk
04.22.2014 , 05:54 AM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by SomeJagoff View Post
Sweet, the 5-10 people left in the game who take pvp seriously and queue ranked "to win" should be pleased. And for potential other hundreds who may have had an incentive to queue ranked to get their teeth knocked in in hopes of getting at least something to show for it...now have none.

It really would be nice if you guys would take a day and really brainstorm on what direction you want "PVP" to go in this game.

You "only want people to queue ranked with the intention of winning" but yet you have Bolster in Ranked Arenas, just in case "somebody serious about ranked" just happened to forget to queue with PVP gear? Or just to hold the hands of new people just trying it out so don't get their teeth knocked in and have a "bad experience" ? But when they lose and get no credit towards the ranked weekly, no hand holding then and only the best of the best need apply?

It should also go without saying that making these ranked missions advance through "Wins Only" will no doubt encourage queue syncing and win trading, vs if it was just "matches played" you'd actually have people willing to queue ranked and get their teeth knocked in if it meant they'd at least get Something out if it.

I somewhat could understand making a Group Ranked daily/weekly mission require wins only to advance (since there are very few "teams" queuing for ranked under the "Group" queue), but Yolo Queue as well? With the virtual lack of any discernable matchmaking? "sorry, even though your whole team is 1500 or below, you're facing off against a premade team of 2400 because, well, there's nobody else, so sucks for you that you'll get no progress towards this mission, But!...But!...Keep queueing ranked, because your "Only" incentive should be to queue ranked because you like queuing ranked!"

Yeah that philosophy is what has killed ranked in this game. It doesn't just punish those being farmed either, but those farming, since when people stop queuing, the top players doing the farming have no one to play against either, so then everyone who wants to even try ranked gets the joy of sitting in queue for hours on end for a pop that will never come and completely wasting their time. Then it's back to pugstomping regs.

To be clear, chances are high that even with "matches played" there still would be long waits for ranked vs regular matches, but it would no doubt be significantly higher.

I know many applauded you for this decision Alex, and in principle I agree with you as well, but the reality is that there are Very few people left in the game who care about ranked pvp to begin with, so really, it's not a choice of:

"Games with skilled players vs other skilled players -Or- games with skilled players vs mix of skilled/unskilled players trying to farm comms"

but simply:

"Games with a mix of skilled/unskilled players vs skilled/unskilled players trying to farm comms -Or- NO games at all."

In that case, it would obviously be better to have Some games pop, with people there to farm comms or not, than just being forced to troll /2 begging people to queue group/solo every time you want a pop.

For the few remaining players who spend hours trying to get others to queue or schedule to play other teams they know, this doesn't really affect them, since they queue ranked because they enjoy ranked. Eventually though, when those people tire of the effort involved in organizing for hours for 40mins of ranked matches and when nobody new wants to queue ranked knowing that they're going to lose and get nothing out of it by way of mission rewards or match comms, then ranked arenas will be completely dead.

So as I said at the beginning, you and your team should really sit down and brainstorm what direction you want pvp to go in this game with the remaining PVP population, being mindful of New players joining the game. Do you want to encourage people to participate in ranked and increase the ranked population as a whole or just cater to the last 5-10 remaining people who are Die Hard SWTOR Ranked PVPers?

The choice is yours and yours alone.
tl;dr

Ranked isn't for casuals.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
04.22.2014 , 06:29 AM | #118
Quote: Originally Posted by Pistols View Post
Half and half is fine or even full Obroan tbh. As long as someone is wearing full PvP gear, augmented and has a set bonus, shouldn't be an issue. THe difference isn't game-breaking (Obroan to Brutalizer).
^this.

I'm above average but nothing special. I understand strategy and (most) abils, but I don't get the most out of my toon(s), pre-press the right things, have enough binds and honed muscle memory. point is, I know what I don't know. a lot of ppl seem unwilling to acknowledge this.

in any case, someone who has real mastery of his class (and mine) will overcome one or even two tiers of pvp gear. I'm 100% confident that someone who knows both his class and the class of his opponent can, wearing min/max'd conq, wipe the floor with someone in full brutalizer. I think that people who claim otherwise really are living in a state denial. but most ppl do not know how to milk everything out of their class or exactly how to react to every other class or have the muscle memory to pre-press the right binds. only when both opponents have all of that does class balance dictate outcome. otherwise...it just band-aids these factors (pyro PT is one such band-aid, smash has been one -- mando heals is the opposite and exposes such players, etc.).

speaking strictly about pvp tiers, the gear gap has been relatively insignificant for about a year or so (at least since partisan). being min/max'd has actually been more significant than the tier itself (because default stats are that bad? ).
Krackerjack/Deinon/Antiphon
JC -- Harb -- TEH

AlexModny's Avatar


AlexModny
04.22.2014 , 07:32 AM | #119 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Quote: Originally Posted by Wonkanerd View Post
Alex, you make me proud. Not only me, but all PvPers,
Quote: Originally Posted by Skinnychalk View Post
Your sir are a champion
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterSLC View Post
Agreed, thanks Alex.
Quote: Originally Posted by sithBracer View Post
You should be careful alex, or we might start to like you.
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandLordMenace View Post
Dude, stick to your guns. You guys got it for once.
Quote: Originally Posted by Z-ToXiN View Post
Thank you thank you thank you.
Thanks for the encouragement guys, but we will see how this plays in the wild before the team starts patting ourselves on the back.

There are a lot of interesting ideas in this thread and have enjoyed reading the debate. Valid points are being brought up on the Pro and Con side which are both interesting reads. One idea that got me thinking on the drive into work was this post:


Quote: Originally Posted by Saaz View Post
So we need to assess the thing I value most as a ranked player - and that is - more rating.

A PVE player has no value for rating so is not incentivised to do a daily that rewards it. Conversely it will promote people who have high rating to keep playing to continue to escalate in score when the competition might only yield marginal increases.

"But we can't reward more rating based on a daily - it will only inflate the maximum possible ratings" - then boundary test the system to see how decay will work at high rating although I suspect the current MMR regime should work largely intact (unless a player never ever loses and then I'd be asking questions).

But how much should we set the values at?

Well low - for daily +10 rating and +20 for weekly but feel free to adjust based on testing.
After careful consideration, we understand where the desire for a reward that only a Ranked player would care about comes from. Reward the players for exactly what they are participating in. Simple enough. But granting rating off of quests diminishes the meaning of the rating itself. A player of a high rating could be really amazing OR just saved up a season's worth of pending quests and turned them in on the last day. The rating then doesn't accurately represent the player's performance in the Ranked games.

Thanks everyone! Breakfast taco time!
Alex Modny | Assistant Designer
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tanerb's Avatar


tanerb
04.22.2014 , 08:27 AM | #120
Good that you quoted those guys. If these guys complain why there are no people in ranked, we can point out this thread.