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2.7 Concealment - Snaveheart


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Adaliaya
04.23.2014 , 11:35 PM | #11
Do you happen to play on red eclipse? I swear someone with "snave" on his name beated my healer Sage to endless annoyement

Thanks for video, helped a lot with my own Operative AND Scoundrel (love class, will love even nerfed)

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snave
04.24.2014 , 01:41 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Adaliaya View Post
Do you happen to play on red eclipse? I swear someone with "snave" on his name beated my healer Sage to endless annoyement

Thanks for video, helped a lot with my own Operative AND Scoundrel (love class, will love even nerfed)
Yes I play on TRE, moved back there after all the PvP guilds left TOFN when 8 man ranked was removed.

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Adaliaya
04.24.2014 , 04:30 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by snave View Post
Yes I play on TRE, moved back there after all the PvP guilds left TOFN when 8 man ranked was removed.
I knew it, I have faced you many times on WZ man, you're healer's worst nightmare -_-

Question I could use help with is about my own Conc Operative. I can often open well and bring my target to about 50% health. After that when they notice they're attacked they stun me and I cant avoid it. That often gets me killed/obligates escape. Is there any way to avoid stuns? Maybe choosing my targets better or what? I have problems to stay in 4 meter range.
Any help appreciated

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snave
04.24.2014 , 05:10 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Adaliaya View Post
I knew it, I have faced you many times on WZ man, you're healer's worst nightmare -_-

Question I could use help with is about my own Conc Operative. I can often open well and bring my target to about 50% health. After that when they notice they're attacked they stun me and I cant avoid it. That often gets me killed/obligates escape. Is there any way to avoid stuns? Maybe choosing my targets better or what? I have problems to stay in 4 meter range.
Any help appreciated
There's no real way to avoid stuns or any of your opponents abilities really, if they have them available they can use them freely you just need to learn how to adapt on the fly, pick your targets wisely and be aware of the full arsenal at your disposal.

It's a bit difficult to write an all encompassing guide to beat every class but generally speaking here are a few pointers for you. Learn to spot the wounded foe mid fight, most of the PvP in this game that doesn't involve taking off nodes (which by the way you should learn to do, it really adds value to your spot in the team) will be a big cluster of people smacking on each other. If you're trying to kill someone and you spot another player on low health then by all means swap targets and finish them off. 1 actually dead player is worth more than 1 theoretical dead player. The only time I would deviate from this would be if I was intentionally focusing one player (a healer for example) and was effectively removing them from the fight by keeping constant pressure on them.

Look for the "soft" targets in a game, people with health above 33k will generally be in PvE gear which will allow you to get some big hits off and people with health below 28k will generally have poor PvP gear which again will allow you to drop them fast. Mark them up if it helps you spot them in game, remember - you're not doing this to farm numbers you're doing it to remove the weakest link from the opponents team. Even players in bad gear can still CC you, interrupt healers, land damage and cap nodes, by removing them as a priority you're making sure your damage is as efficient as possible.

If you're getting stunned off the bat then learn which ones you should break and which ones you should leave. For example I'll always break a powertech's cryo grenade because their other stun lasts for a much shorter time, same principle with mezzes. If the stun breaks on damage then they can't hit you for the duration so unless it's a situation where a healer is about to heal to full you're better off waiting for their hard stun to break. If you're getting knock backs then just roll right back in there, as soon as you're travelling backwards you should have your camera pointed at them and be spamming that roll button! Once you hit the ground you'll ping right back on to them but be careful not to spam too much and end up rolling past them! Once you're back in their pockets slap sever tendon on them or debilitate to make sure they don't get away from you again, we're the slippery ones not them!

Don't think of it like you need to be within 4 meters - You want to be inside their character, constantly moving around, taking advantage of this games poor hit box system and making it hard for them to hit you. Constantly move, it's super annoying. True story; a guy once made a post about me on the TRE forums complaining that I moved around too much during a fight and it wasn't fair. Never underestimate how bad the bads can be.

Naturally I'd recommend watching my movies, most of these tips are shown in them but I'd also recommend you go to my twitch channel and look at past broadcasts. I've recently started labelling them by the warzones they contain so if you're looking for help on Civil War no problem! Find one called CW or Civil War and off you go. These are all unedited so you'll be able to see me making mistakes and dying just as much as me stealing nodes and breaking face Well hopefully more of me taking nodes than dying and making mistakes!

If you see any particular games you'd like me to explain what I was doing or what I was thinking just let me know and I'll do a voice over for you. Wont take me long to do that and I don't mind at all, actually I'm looking for an excuse to do one so if anyone wants to pick a game you'll be helping me out!

You're on the same server as me so if you want to arrange some practice duels just let me know, good luck and see you on the killing fields

Sorry for the wall of text!

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Cordorian
04.24.2014 , 05:55 AM | #15
one thing snave hasnt mentioned (or at least not explicitly) is that most hard stuns are directional... the player must be facing you to stun you ( exception are the knight warrior aoe mezz, the vg/pt aoe stun). As a concealment operative you prefer to be at their back anyway, so try to always stay there, try to never get them face you.

As that way you are less prone to the sorc sage knockback (which is direction as well). Fear the mando/merc and the snipers one though :P

Snave often say concealment is exceptionally good against bad players and there is a lot of truth in that. If you keyboard turn, a concealment operative most likely will rip you apart, since the spec utilities and benefits from quick movement in melee the most. learning to straf is a core skill.

P.S. the target picking applies to all melee dps in way (well not so much to pre 2.7 smash, although ofc you would look out for 27k sorcs in pve gear as well to get the 12ks off :P)

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Adaliaya
04.24.2014 , 06:08 AM | #16
Thanks for long answers you both!

Thing I am doing way wrong is propably movement. I run to enemy and start pressing keys and usually stop at that point. Now when I think it almost all good operatives keep moving even when range.

I especially find Sentinels hard to beat. I can stun them, okay. But they very often have Rebuke on that not only blocks my damage but reflects some back as well. If I get them below 30% they pop Saber Ward or Guarded by Force and delay their death too long for me to survive.

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snave
04.24.2014 , 08:28 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Adaliaya View Post
Thanks for long answers you both!

Thing I am doing way wrong is propably movement. I run to enemy and start pressing keys and usually stop at that point. Now when I think it almost all good operatives keep moving even when range.

I especially find Sentinels hard to beat. I can stun them, okay. But they very often have Rebuke on that not only blocks my damage but reflects some back as well. If I get them below 30% they pop Saber Ward or Guarded by Force and delay their death too long for me to survive.
I cannot stress enough how important it is to get your movement up to scratch, get in to the habit of using your strafe keys, use both mouse buttons to run, just use every single method you can to get in to the habit of moving constantly. We have a 4m range so you can even fake a move to another target and come back but you have to be able to move and attack at the same time, it's one of the fundamentals of the class.

You're talking about Juggs / Guardians there mate not sentinels and yes, they're an absolute nightmare to kill at the moment. Well, the good ones are borderline unkillable but fortunately for me and you there are still plenty of bad ones who have gotten cocky and are ripe to be exploited. You basically have to kill them twice, that's the simplest way to view the fight. Play conservatively, run and heal, don't be afraid to CC them and get the warzone health buff if it's near by but it's a tough match up for us at the moment. If you're looking to take a node from one like in civil war or AH and even voidstar you'd be better off getting them to pop their CC breaker then going back and trying to sap cap them but it's tricky to pull off if they've positioned themselves well. Currently I tend to try and kite them as much as possible and pop off as many LOS heals as I can but it's really not straight forward, even the bad ones are pretty hard to kill.

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Cordorian
04.24.2014 , 09:07 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Adaliaya View Post
Thanks for long answers you both!

Thing I am doing way wrong is propably movement. I run to enemy and start pressing keys and usually stop at that point. Now when I think it almost all good operatives keep moving even when range.

I especially find Sentinels hard to beat. I can stun them, okay. But they very often have Rebuke on that not only blocks my damage but reflects some back as well. If I get them below 30% they pop Saber Ward or Guarded by Force and delay their death too long for me to survive.
TRE some watchman sentinels are running around, but in general this spec is considered too garbage for pvp... of which you see are in PvE gear somehow. So not worth going into a, despite it being the best sentinel 1v1 spec.

Smash was massively nerfed but it still does decent single target damage and you still a lot smash sents and maras around (contrary to expectations). Now that smash actually needs a target, getting them below 30% reopening should work. Smash needs to leap at you, so if you deny them that, there damage potential is pretty mediocre, you can cleanse force exhaustion with evasion if you want to since it is pretty hard hitting and they will have trouble building up their stacks for smash without it. Master Strike in smash doesnt have a root so you can simply roll out of it. The second leap smash has, breaks roots, so preferable root them would they have already use it. The whole aim against this spec, is not let them smash... the whole tree revolve around that ability (which doesnt mean it is only hard hitting one, but once they smashed you their surge, power and crit chance on the attacks immediately after smash is buffed significantly)

Combat is probably the to go spec for sentinel atm and if you are not careful they can gutter you in seconds, before you even realize what has happened. Yet in fact concealment is almost a hard counter to this spec. All damage they have is melee (white damage) save for Blade Storm. Any good combat sentinel will use blade storm only with the autocrit proc and inside a precision slash window (to maximize the damage), so it is not like they will open with that (if they are any good). focus management is tight in combat, and if you hit one cold, they first have to build up focus for their big hitting attacks, with one notable exception-> Master Strike.
Basically a combat sentinel can hit Precision Slash (100% armor pen) Master Strike, almost out of nowhare and that could already kill you if you are not a at full health and eat the full MS. At any point if you see a combat sentinel perform that on you, stun him, mezz him or use evasion (blocks all white damage), do not let him have a full master strike on you. They have root on MS, so rolling away is not an option. Evasion probably the best in slot response, if you dont have your hard stun at this moment.
Against combat evasion is basically god mode, and it is the reason, operatives can be a living night mare against them (i main a sentinel, i just not really good with it ).
And again all sentinel damage is direction

so some general tip against sentinels (all specs) and their CDs. GbtF since 2.5 is a bit like sorc bubble (when you no heals back up is there), you trade in 5 s where you almost to take no damage, for a massive health loss (1/2) at the end. The as an operative this is fairly easy to counter, once you see the buff from GbtF.... flashbang, wait till it is over, kill him. so in a 1v1 GbtF is the sents very last straw and if you just mez him out of his god mode, there is nothing he could do. There is not much you can do against saber ward, but despite being a good CD, the sentinel still takes quite some damage (it is on a 2 min CD as well). Rebuke doesnt really negate that much damage and what it sends back is relatively little (unlike the juggs saber reflect). so no real reason to fear it that much. The thing is basically a stunned or mezzed sentinel doesnt have better defenses than an operative (in smash they still have better mitigation, but still).
One more thing. Sentinel are fairly poor in terms of ranged attacks (far worse than operative). So root them and kite them around , dot them up and stuff like that.

I think these days vengeance juggs are tougher, especially because they can make you look like a total idiot. If they see you from stealth and anticipate being hit, saber reflect... you just hidden stroke yourself. You have them stunned a wear them down.... enraged defense and h2f.
Considering the current level of QQ, this is soon to be nerfed.

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Adaliaya
04.24.2014 , 09:51 AM | #19
Sorry to bombard you with questions but you seem to know about things. I use mouse to run, etc. Do I get any real benefit by keeping run forward keybind, or should I put ability to it's place

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Cordorian
04.24.2014 , 10:22 AM | #20
even if you mouse run, it some time useful to rotate your camera while you are walking. Like when you are going to a node and want to check if and who is following you or if you leave a node (when somebody else is guarding) and stuff like that.

But i think you want to bind an ability to 'W' do it, yet you definitely can unbind 'S' and unless you want to troll hard on your sorc/sage :P