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The BattleZone! Demo Match: 4-way Brawl

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
The BattleZone! Demo Match: 4-way Brawl

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.18.2014 , 02:04 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by cs_zoltan View Post
Vader has his guard down or distracted? Sounds legit...But anyway he survived for at least 10-15 min after eating a full load of Palp's lightning, Traya won't even tickle.
He's caught up in the midst of a four way brawl against two extremely deadly fighters, I'd call that a distraction. It can be as simple as a saber block or perhaps as he's executing a dodge. Any situation where is attention and actions are focused on the enemies he can see, not the one he can't see i.e. concealed by the Force.

And Vader was hardly in a condition to fight was he? He couldn't even stand without assistance. That is exactly the sort of state he'll be killed in. That and it wasn't even a "full load" but a series of stray sparks. Regardless you forget that Traya will use Shatterpoint to attack his most vulnerable spot, she'll bypass his suit's defenses completely.

Bearing in mind that unconcentrated bursts of Galen Marek's lightning were enough to cripple Vader as well. Actually if I remember correctly Marek zapped him at a weak spot caused by damage to his suit.

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
04.18.2014 , 02:29 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
He's caught up in the midst of a four way brawl against two extremely deadly fighters, I'd call that a distraction. It can be as simple as a saber block or perhaps as he's executing a dodge. Any situation where is attention and actions are focused on the enemies he can see, not the one he can't see i.e. concealed by the Force.

And Vader was hardly in a condition to fight was he? He couldn't even stand without assistance. That is exactly the sort of state he'll be killed in. That and it wasn't even a "full load" but a series of stray sparks. Regardless you forget that Traya will use Shatterpoint to attack his most vulnerable spot, she'll bypass his suit's defenses completely.

Bearing in mind that unconcentrated bursts of Galen Marek's lightning were enough to cripple Vader as well. Actually if I remember correctly Marek zapped him at a weak spot caused by damage to his suit.
Reminder... vader has shatter point......

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
04.18.2014 , 02:32 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
He's caught up in the midst of a four way brawl against two extremely deadly fighters, I'd call that a distraction. It can be as simple as a saber block or perhaps as he's executing a dodge. Any situation where is attention and actions are focused on the enemies he can see, not the one he can't see i.e. concealed by the Force.

And Vader was hardly in a condition to fight was he? He couldn't even stand without assistance. That is exactly the sort of state he'll be killed in. That and it wasn't even a "full load" but a series of stray sparks. Regardless you forget that Traya will use Shatterpoint to attack his most vulnerable spot, she'll bypass his suit's defenses completely.

Bearing in mind that unconcentrated bursts of Galen Marek's lightning were enough to cripple Vader as well. Actually if I remember correctly Marek zapped him at a weak spot caused by damage to his suit.
It did, but really Vader wasn't really interested in fighting anyway and he had to concentrate a full blast to the suit in that spot. Though were just gonna assume that the other 3 are complete ******* and just going to ignore the fact that someone had left the battle completely? Even when the starting distance has them all visible to one another?

Jeez folks, you guys act as is this Force concealment crap is some instant win thing. When in a fight, has Force Concealment actually been used? Why would someone tax themselves heavily just to try and ambush an opponent? Even when if you know, other Force Users can sense attacks and be able to defend themselves.

In fact actually, Vader already has dealt with disappearing opponents. Need I remind you of the Dark Woman?

Quote:
Reminder... vader has shatter point......
?? Vader doesn't have shatterpoint.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.18.2014 , 02:43 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
It did, but really Vader wasn't really interested in fighting anyway and he had to concentrate a full blast to the suit in that spot. Though were just gonna assume that the other 3 are complete ******* and just going to ignore the fact that someone had left the battle completely? Even when the starting distance has them all visible to one another?

Jeez folks, you guys act as is this Force concealment crap is some instant win thing. When in a fight, has Force Concealment actually been used? Why would someone tax themselves heavily just to try and ambush an opponent? Even when if you know, other Force Users can sense attacks and be able to defend themselves.
I'm not going to get into the details there, just demonstrating that you don't need to be Darth Sidious to down Vader, and that attacking weak spots in his armor has a crippling effect.

Anyway what exactly are they going to do? First lets be clear that if Traya takes the time to perceive Vader's shatterpoint while visible, her time invisible will be severely reduced. We are talking minutes, if not seconds, all she has to do if wait for Vader to get caught up in the battle then move herself into place. The others won't exactly in a position to mount a search party, all they can do is keep aware. But that won't be any help because Traya will be masking her presence in the Force as well making her impossible to predict. Again, there is little they can do.

Maris Brood used it extensively in her fight against Marek, and to great effect. And really in a four way duel were distractions are in abundance it would be foolish to not use such a technique to gain the advantage.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
04.18.2014 , 03:02 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I'm not going to get into the details there, just demonstrating that you don't need to be Darth Sidious to down Vader, and that attacking weak spots in his armor has a crippling effect.

Anyway what exactly are they going to do? First lets be clear that if Traya takes the time to perceive Vader's shatterpoint while visible, her time invisible will be severely reduced. We are talking minutes, if not seconds, all she has to do if wait for Vader to get caught up in the battle then move herself into place. The others won't exactly in a position to mount a search party, all they can do is keep aware. But that won't be any help because Traya will be masking her presence in the Force as well making her impossible to predict. Again, there is little they can do.

Maris Brood used it extensively in her fight against Marek, and to great effect. And really in a four way duel were distractions are in abundance it would be foolish to not use such a technique to gain the advantage.
Bearing in mind Beni, that Vader only has been damaged by Force Lighting when his suit was damaged. I'm not saying that someone needs to be Sidious, but there is an awful lot of stock being placed in a few particular abilities that aren't just going to work.

Why is there little they can do? Malgus sure, but Vader hhas shown to have great TP/sensory feats to why can't he sense her? Vader has already dealt with the Dark Woman who disappeared on him, so if he takes note of Traya disappearing I don't think he would be caught off guard(which he normally really isn't).

Ok she did but that was during in-game, meaning it wasn't something shown as actual canon. Unless the novel actually depicts her using Force cloak in her combat with Galen, then that is a moot point.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.18.2014 , 03:55 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Bearing in mind Beni, that Vader only has been damaged by Force Lighting when his suit was damaged. I'm not saying that someone needs to be Sidious, but there is an awful lot of stock being placed in a few particular abilities that aren't just going to work.

Why is there little they can do? Malgus sure, but Vader hhas shown to have great TP/sensory feats to why can't he sense her? Vader has already dealt with the Dark Woman who disappeared on him, so if he takes note of Traya disappearing I don't think he would be caught off guard(which he normally really isn't).

Ok she did but that was during in-game, meaning it wasn't something shown as actual canon. Unless the novel actually depicts her using Force cloak in her combat with Galen, then that is a moot point.
In your opinion, shatterpoint hasn't failed Traya before and it won't fail her here, its the perfect power for her to use if she wants to rip straight through his defenses by targeting its vulnerabilities, of which there are many.

As I said before, Traya has stood in front of Jedi Council members, talked in their presence, and they have not seen her. Her abilities are incredibly potent, and while Vader's telepathic abilities are impressive, they are not at the same level of mastery are her concealment powers, nor does he have the luxury of concentration.

She has the means, motive and opportunity, the burden of proof is on you I'm afraid.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
04.18.2014 , 04:07 PM | #48
I'm afraid I need to see a more plausible explanation for Traya to disappear during the fight. There are a lot, a lot, of possible scenarios to consider.
Added Chapter 61 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.18.2014 , 04:13 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I'm afraid I need to see a more plausible explanation for Traya to disappear during the fight. There are a lot, a lot, of possible scenarios to consider.
Again provide a reason for why she wouldn't and we'll talk.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
04.18.2014 , 04:25 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Again provide a reason for why she wouldn't and we'll talk.
Not my job.
Added Chapter 61 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus