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Why was love/marriage banned in the Jedi Order?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Why was love/marriage banned in the Jedi Order?

smagetti's Avatar


smagetti
04.10.2014 , 06:28 PM | #11
There is no emotion. There is peace

First line of the Jedi code. Love is emotion, and they believe in no emotion. Emotion may cloud their judgement.

rashencyberspeed's Avatar


rashencyberspeed
04.10.2014 , 07:37 PM | #12
As an example of how love can harm your judgement, there's the possibility that you may prioritize the person you love over everyone else. Look at Anakin, he killed who knows how many Jedi, including children, to achieve the dark side powers he believed could save Padme.

There's actually an example of this in The Old Republic. But ironically, it happens in the Trooper's story, and not a Jedi's story.

Spoiler

ArielaKnight's Avatar


ArielaKnight
04.10.2014 , 08:46 PM | #13
I wouldn't say that all love would do that. Honestly, if someone I loved ever did that I would walk away from that person as that person is not the person I fell in love with and I believe most would do the same.

Anakin had more problems that "professing" he loved Padme. He "claims" to have loved her yet he turns and does something he knows good and well she wouldn't condone or accept. Is that love? or is that more looking for power?

Then he is given a choice to turn from the darkside and what does he do? He rejects it and then acts out of jealousy and chokes her. Love? I don't think so.

True love doesn't act that way. Love makes you stronger but it sure shouldn't make you act like someone you are not.

You can claim all day long Anakin loved Padme but in my book it wasn't a true love. It was a possessive love which is totally something different.

As far as putting someone above something else, everyone seems to forget one thing a Jedi is not a walking robot. Even if a Jedi wasn't in love you tell me he or she is going to ignore a friend in trouble? I seriously doubt that.

We need to quit thinking of the Jedi as non feeling humans. The problem is the council was unsure how to train them correctly on the matters of the heart. Their best idea, was oh let's just tell them that they can't love, it will make it easier for us. That way we wouldn't have to take each jedi and work with their personalities . We just tell them it not something they should do and then bury our heads in the sand when it happens.

They should work with people instead of hiding away from emotions.

Okay I said enough.
The more you act like a lady, the more he'll act like a gentleman.

KorinHyvek's Avatar


KorinHyvek
04.10.2014 , 11:21 PM | #14
I believe the Jedi Academy sourcebook had a sidebar that mentioned the prohibition on marriage and attachment waxes and wanes with the passing of the years- Sometimes you get the near ironclad prohibition from the prequel trilogy, sometimes you get the New Jedi Order's Laissez-faire style, and sometimes you get the TOR era's middle ground (heavily regulated, but not strictly banned). Ultimately, the problem arises in that love and marriage bring with them a lot of turbulent emotions, and that's very difficult to manage when the dark side is a literal slippery slope. It's quite possible to manage your attachments (many jedi, including Obi-wan and Luke did), and sometimes jedi realize the relationship isn't healthy for them (Satele broke off her relationship with Jace Malcolm and avoided a relationship with Taavus because she felt the relationship would bring out some of the more negative qualities in both parties). And then you have the Annakins. People who, for one reason or another, have trouble with attachment (a depressingly large number of these people exist in real life. Or in countless "romance" novels). The marriage ban is an attempt to appear non-judgemental (Avoids criticisms when one couple is granted permission to marry but another isn't) while trying to prevent the unhealthy attachments from forming.

Of course, prohibiting marriage brings its own problems because the inevitable rule-breakers don't have anywhere to turn for help in managing issues, which leads to things like Annakin or those padawans on Tython who really need to see a counselor.
The Ferrin Legacy, Ebon Hawk
Major Volner Ferrin // Darth Hessar

Dras_Keto's Avatar


Dras_Keto
04.11.2014 , 12:38 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by GrimAce View Post
Now, this probably seems like a fairly dull, mundane topic based on the title...but it's late and I couldn't think up anything better >.>

My question isn't in regards to why the Jedi philosophy explains why emotional attachments are looked down upon, it's in regards to historical context. We see a dramatic change in Jedi attitudes between the Tales of the Jedi series, where we have characters like Nomi Sunrider not only being allowed to marry and love, but also to be trained at a very late age as well.

Jump forward to the Knights of the Old Republic, where we have the more recognizable, prequel trilogy-style training practices of the Order - no entering training after a certain age (with Revan's retraining an obvious exception), love and marriage forbidden and so forth.

I consider myself pretty well versed in Star Wars lore, but unfortunately I don't know much about the KOTOR comics and other material, so I was hoping someone could help fill in the blanks for me here, from an in-universe perspective - why did the Jedi suddenly become so hardline against relationships and attachments? What was their justfication for this drastic change in their philosophy, and how popular was it when it was implemented?
Because, when Lucas was writing the prequel trilogy, he modeled the Jedi Order on the monastic orders we have, but didnt really think about the consequences. The Jedi are just as self destructive and crippled as the Sith are, only they are less flamboyant about it.

If they were going to be intelligent about it, emotion and feeling would be encouraged. They would want their members to understand themselves, to come to terms with and *control* their emotions rather than trying to suppress what they feel. It would be OK to get mad, or sad, or even ecstatically happy, because these would be well adjusted people instead of emotional cripples dealing with the feelings.

How many times in the "lore" do you have some kid who never really grew up and has no real self-control freak out and go evil because they simply never learned how to handle themselves? Derp.

Timarick's Avatar


Timarick
04.11.2014 , 03:51 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by KorinHyvek View Post
I believe the Jedi Academy sourcebook had a sidebar that mentioned the prohibition on marriage and attachment waxes and wanes with the passing of the years- Sometimes you get the near ironclad prohibition from the prequel trilogy, sometimes you get the New Jedi Order's Laissez-faire style, and sometimes you get the TOR era's middle ground (heavily regulated, but not strictly banned). Ultimately, the problem arises in that love and marriage bring with them a lot of turbulent emotions, and that's very difficult to manage when the dark side is a literal slippery slope. It's quite possible to manage your attachments (many jedi, including Obi-wan and Luke did), and sometimes jedi realize the relationship isn't healthy for them (Satele broke off her relationship with Jace Malcolm and avoided a relationship with Tavus because she felt the relationship would bring out some of the more negative qualities in both parties). And then you have the Anakins. People who, for one reason or another, have trouble with attachment (a depressingly large number of these people exist in real life. Or in countless "romance" novels). The marriage ban is an attempt to appear non-judgmental (Avoids criticisms when one couple is granted permission to marry but another isn't) while trying to prevent the unhealthy attachments from forming.

Of course, prohibiting marriage brings its own problems because the inevitable rule-breakers don't have anywhere to turn for help in managing issues, which leads to things like Anakin or those padawans on Tython who really need to see a counselor.
And the sick joke about it all? Throughout ALL the waxing and waning periods of the Jedi Order, the Jedi do not ban SEX. Ever. Discourage it, certainly, but they can't ban it! And while sex more often than not leads to attachment (that's what she said...) in a very literal sense, it's also true that some can divorce sex from connotations such AS love. But it's also a biological thing that we organics do and they can't really do sweet sweet FA about it. Heck even in the Clone Wars, though not at all used in this sense, the Master/Padawan relationship is explained as this when confronted with situations that the Master might lose the Apprentice:

"I will mourn [her], but I will celebrate [her] as well." Luminara Unduli to Anakin Skywalker about Bariss Offee.

The Jedi clearly take this approach to sex: Celebrate what you have in the moment.

Yeah, not very intelligent to ban one thing but NOT ban the other... No wonder the attachment rule is always the first to get thrown out whenever the Jedi Order re-structures from a purge: You can't even keep it in your pants, guys!

SonzeK's Avatar


SonzeK
04.11.2014 , 05:13 AM | #17
Its just that the jedi order is a dictatorship that hides under democracy,that's why you see alot and unexplained exceptions. but for the record,love can make you revenge on the one who hurt your lover,or it can make you fear of losing your lover.

Saragundius's Avatar


Saragundius
04.11.2014 , 07:55 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by GrimAce View Post
Now, this probably seems like a fairly dull, mundane topic based on the title...but it's late and I couldn't think up anything better >.>

My question isn't in regards to why the Jedi philosophy explains why emotional attachments are looked down upon, it's in regards to historical context. We see a dramatic change in Jedi attitudes between the Tales of the Jedi series, where we have characters like Nomi Sunrider not only being allowed to marry and love, but also to be trained at a very late age as well.

Jump forward to the Knights of the Old Republic, where we have the more recognizable, prequel trilogy-style training practices of the Order - no entering training after a certain age (with Revan's retraining an obvious exception), love and marriage forbidden and so forth.

I consider myself pretty well versed in Star Wars lore, but unfortunately I don't know much about the KOTOR comics and other material, so I was hoping someone could help fill in the blanks for me here, from an in-universe perspective - why did the Jedi suddenly become so hardline against relationships and attachments? What was their justfication for this drastic change in their philosophy, and how popular was it when it was implemented?
Basically Luke was not a fully trained Jedi, so he could never pass it right. He allowed emotions into the Jedi Teachings, also allowed older ppl to be trained in the Force since he needed students.

BUT THEN again, every era is different you know. Jedi got on the right track later on after Cole Skywalker and Cade. At that era for example Sith changed a lot, with the ONE SITH thing.

DarknessInLight's Avatar


DarknessInLight
04.11.2014 , 11:19 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by GrimAce View Post
Now, this probably seems like a fairly dull, mundane topic based on the title...but it's late and I couldn't think up anything better >.>

My question isn't in regards to why the Jedi philosophy explains why emotional attachments are looked down upon, it's in regards to historical context. We see a dramatic change in Jedi attitudes between the Tales of the Jedi series, where we have characters like Nomi Sunrider not only being allowed to marry and love, but also to be trained at a very late age as well.

Jump forward to the Knights of the Old Republic, where we have the more recognizable, prequel trilogy-style training practices of the Order - no entering training after a certain age (with Revan's retraining an obvious exception), love and marriage forbidden and so forth.

I consider myself pretty well versed in Star Wars lore, but unfortunately I don't know much about the KOTOR comics and other material, so I was hoping someone could help fill in the blanks for me here, from an in-universe perspective - why did the Jedi suddenly become so hardline against relationships and attachments? What was their justfication for this drastic change in their philosophy, and how popular was it when it was implemented?
Unfortunately, attachments are directly forbidden by the Jedi code. I know you didn't want to discuss that aspect of it, but its difficult not to given the subject we are now talking about.

The Jedi Vergere believed that Marriage(and by extension, Love)needed to be outlawed in the order primarily so as not to create dynasties of those strong in the Force. If familial dynasties were allowed to form, infighting could develop in the Order itself, and it would collapse as it had done in the Sith Order for centuries prior.
Jedi do not fight for Peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading, as slogans always are. Jedi fight for Civilization, because only Civilization creates Peace. - Jedi Master Mace Windu

ScarletBlaze's Avatar


ScarletBlaze
04.11.2014 , 11:42 AM | #20
Something people tend to forget regarding this.

First: Yes it was frowned up but when you actually tell someone they can't do something, what is the one thing a lot of people will do? A lot of times they will do the exact opposite of what you tell them.

Second: Can you banned love? No it is an emotion and there is no way you can ban that.

Third: Saying they banned attachments is not entirely true. Masters and Padawans formed attachments to each other. Yes it is different but it is still an attachment which could still create a problem.

Saying love is the only way someone can fall to the darkside is a bit short-sighted if you asked me. A padawan could fall to the darkside if they saw their master killed as well or even hurt.

So saying attachments should be banned was a bit short-sighted. What they should have done is looked at each person individually and worked with them. If a person was having a problem and they knew they could go to someone on the council with the situation without this "We told you that is not allowed" and be able to confide and find someone willing to listen and to advise them how to handle their emotions, the order might have been better off.

I am sorry telling someone who is already in love that what they are feeling is banned or not allowed is not a way to handle it. They are failing in what they should be doing and that is helping the person handle being in love and yes being a jedi.


My opinion for what it is worth.
A southern girl is a girl who knows full well that she can open a door for herself but prefers for the gentleman to do it because it demonstrates a sense of respect. Current Guild Roleplay: Redemption: The battle of Xa Fel https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...ps/r-1rAjOuo30